- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Tone 11:23, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
List of The Simpsons couch gags
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of The Simpsons couch gags ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The last AfD was in 2010, when inclusion standards were much lower than today. This is essentially a list of jokes, not much different from The Simpsons billboard gags (deleted in 2010), and The Simpsons chalkboard gags (deleted in 2008). We can deduct that it's WP:TRIVIA from that the gags are not listed in the season articles, and that they only appear in the infobox in ep articles (without further discussion). Sure, there are sources that discuss the couch gags in general, but all of that can be and is covered in The Simpsons opening sequence#Couch gag. Meanwhile, this list of trivia is getting bigger each season; a split was proposed in August 2019, but no discussion is happening (nor did the split proposal get removed). Time to call it for this piece of en.wiki history? – sgeureka t• c 10:40, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 10:44, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. – sgeureka t• c 10:55, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:17, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete This is pure trivia. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:22, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- KEEP notable enough it gets ample coverage in the news media. Click the Google news search at the top of the AFD and spend some time glancing over all the results. I'll see what I can add to the article. Dream Focus 17:25, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Dream Focus 17:28, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete.
User:Dream Focus says to search google news, but all I see are a bunch of clickbait listicles, not reliable sources. Besides, notability isn't the main issue brought by the nomination (although it is an issue here), the article being an "indiscriminate collection of information" is.
Mdaniels5757 (
talk)
21:54, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I added some references to reliable sources that gave significant coverage to the article already. Anyway, it is not indiscriminate, it is a list of notable information which is mentioned by reliable sources at times. The articles for all of these many notable episode articles list the couch gag in the infobox of those articles. When
CNN reviewed an episode of the show they mentioned the "jaw-dropping couch gag"
[1] as part of their review. Search the news for "the simpsons" "couch gag" "hobbit" and you'll find a lot of reliable sources talking about that, dedicating entirely articles to it like Today
[2] and Wired magazine did.
[3] The Guardian gave had an article dedicated to another episode's couch gag
[4] And so many much coverage out there. So many of these things get coverage, that proves its a notable enough thing to have a list article for.
Dream Focus
02:24, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- There is already an article dedicated to The Simpsons opening sequence, which is more than sufficient to put these references and sources. A list of couch gags is unnecessary and crufty, and is of little interest to non-fans. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 22:18, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- I added some references to reliable sources that gave significant coverage to the article already. Anyway, it is not indiscriminate, it is a list of notable information which is mentioned by reliable sources at times. The articles for all of these many notable episode articles list the couch gag in the infobox of those articles. When
CNN reviewed an episode of the show they mentioned the "jaw-dropping couch gag"
[1] as part of their review. Search the news for "the simpsons" "couch gag" "hobbit" and you'll find a lot of reliable sources talking about that, dedicating entirely articles to it like Today
[2] and Wired magazine did.
[3] The Guardian gave had an article dedicated to another episode's couch gag
[4] And so many much coverage out there. So many of these things get coverage, that proves its a notable enough thing to have a list article for.
Dream Focus
02:24, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- Weak delete. Dream Focus did raise good points and the deletes are WP:IDL and fail WP:ATA. But again, why centralize everything in a list when we have individual episode articles to cover each thing? ミラ P 15:15, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Fancrufty, non-notable list. The idea of couch gags is of course notable and can be mentioned in the main Simpsons article, but this is giving undue weight to it and belongs in Wikia. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 22:15, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- Strong Keep It is an absolute crying shame that 31 seasons of tidy history would even be considered for deletion. JPL is a one trick pony saying "delete." With his history, you should never listen to his consistent agenda to destroy wikipedia content. And obviously there are too many others like him who thoughtlessly echo delete votes. Get over the fact that we are not talking about the
Journal of American Medical Association, we are talking about a television series-one of the longest running series in television history. The couch gag is an integral element to this iconic television series. Try reading some of the 22 unique sources already listed.
Groening revealed that the couch gag was inspired by the classic “ Mickey Mouse Club” opening that concluded with Donald Duck banging a gong. The animation changed episode-to-episode, and Groening thought, “If I ever get my own show, I’ll do a Donald Duck-style gong gag.”
*Every episode of The Simpsons begins with the family congregating on the couch in front of the TV, and every episode includes a different gag during the iconic couch sequence.
*The Simpsons couch gags at the start of every episode have become iconic.
*As the odometer hit 300, USA TODAY published a two-page report – “300 reasons to love ‘The Simpsons’” – that listed, among other things, 35 couch gags
*The Simpsons' take their couch gag to Middle Earth in 'Hobbit' spoof . . . On Sunday night, the Simpson family will take trip to the same old place they end up every week — their couch.
*each week the "couch gag" involves doing something silly
*The list of memorable “Simpsons” couch gags includes Disney movies, the Game of Life, Letterman and “Breaking Bad.” At one point, the whole town showed up to join the Simpson family on the couch for some evening TV watching. And on another occasion, two Simpson families appeared.
*The famous credits gag is given a whimsical French tinge
*In advance of The Simpsons‘ 28th season premiere (Sunday, 8/7c), Fox has released the episode’s highly anticipated couch gag
*Sunday's season finale of The Simpsons will feature a couch gag crossover with Adult Swim's Rick and Morty
Thats not one source picking up on one fluke gag, those are all different sources. Clearly notable. This is wikipedia at its finest. Compiling information from a multitude of sources and keeping a coherent log that we will save. We don't have that kind of detailed information about the aforementioned Mickey Mouse Club because nobody at the time thought it was important enough to save. Maybe the Smithsonian should throw out all those old things taking up space in those rooms. And you idiots want to destroy that cataloging work and all that history. How do you sleep at night? Trackinfo ( talk) 04:52, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how many times it has to be said that the *idea* of the couch gag is not what is up for debate as notable. It's whether we need an article that is a list of trivial minutia about every single one that ever existed. FANDOM exists for things like that if you want to "catalog information" and original research about the show, but it's not suitable for Wikipedia proper. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 05:51, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- You have already stipulated this is a notable subject. As I said before, this list is exactly what wikipedia does best. To my knowledge, there is no other list like this available elsewhere on the internet. Certainly not on the #1 information site in the world. It is only fully compiled here. You are talking about destroying over 13 years of accumulated work, about 2,000 edits by at least several dozen editors compiling this data in a well organized fashion. Even if you were to merge backward to the individual shows, the juggling act of these couch gags is not remotely as apparent as it is presented here in a coherent form. Whatever
WP:wikilawyering you choose to come up with, you are making an excuse, a dastardly excuse, to destroy well done content.
Trackinfo (
talk)
21:00, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- You claim "there is no other list like this available elsewhere on the internet"
- However, that's not true. Lots of fansites list the couch gags.
- If you search Google, the first result is the Simpsons wiki [5].
- Honestly, that's probably a better place for it. ApLundell ( talk) 01:20, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- You have already stipulated this is a notable subject. As I said before, this list is exactly what wikipedia does best. To my knowledge, there is no other list like this available elsewhere on the internet. Certainly not on the #1 information site in the world. It is only fully compiled here. You are talking about destroying over 13 years of accumulated work, about 2,000 edits by at least several dozen editors compiling this data in a well organized fashion. Even if you were to merge backward to the individual shows, the juggling act of these couch gags is not remotely as apparent as it is presented here in a coherent form. Whatever
WP:wikilawyering you choose to come up with, you are making an excuse, a dastardly excuse, to destroy well done content.
Trackinfo (
talk)
21:00, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails WP:LISTN as it has not been 'discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources'. Hug syrup 10:14, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - They're covered elsewhere, so this is just unnecessary duplication. No information is lost and it solves the issue of needing to split out from a page of trivia. TTN ( talk) 13:38, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Merge notable examples to the main Simpsons page, but otherwise Delete. I know some couch gags have recieved focus (eg the Rick and Morty one, the Robot Chicken one), and some mention of these "outsourced" gags should be on the main Simpsons page. As most eps of the Simpsons are stand-alone notable, further details of the more unique couch gag can be included on those pages. But a list of these outright is inappropiate for WP. -- Masem ( t) 19:17, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Also, depending on how much one can find about this, a more thorough article describing the nature of the couch gag, listing only a few notable examples, could be had, if there is a SIZE problem at The Simpsons. "Couch gag" does seem to generate a good deal of hits, and arguably may have its own reception separate from the show. But, end of the day, the point is that a full list of the couch gags is not needed on WP. -- Masem ( t) 19:21, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete excessively trivial, notable examples can be covered in prose in other articles, as noted by Masem above. Otherwise, this seems to fail WP:LISTN; any sources that deal with this set are mostly unreliable fan blogs and the like. -- Jayron 32 16:35, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per above. While there may be sources for the concept of the couch gag in general, and some sources on a few of the individual examples, there are not any sources that would allow this entire list of every single one pass WP:LISTN. And as noted, there are already appropriate places for those bits of sourced information to be included. Rorshacma ( talk) 00:46, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. StrayBolt ( talk) 18:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. StrayBolt ( talk) 18:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. As much as I love the Simpsons, this article belongs in fandom or Wikia. It's WP:FANCRUFT. Ajf773 ( talk) 19:44, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete This article might attract new editors. And we all know they'd be the wrong sort. Peregrine Fisher ( talk) 02:02, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Tone 11:23, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
List of The Simpsons couch gags
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of The Simpsons couch gags ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The last AfD was in 2010, when inclusion standards were much lower than today. This is essentially a list of jokes, not much different from The Simpsons billboard gags (deleted in 2010), and The Simpsons chalkboard gags (deleted in 2008). We can deduct that it's WP:TRIVIA from that the gags are not listed in the season articles, and that they only appear in the infobox in ep articles (without further discussion). Sure, there are sources that discuss the couch gags in general, but all of that can be and is covered in The Simpsons opening sequence#Couch gag. Meanwhile, this list of trivia is getting bigger each season; a split was proposed in August 2019, but no discussion is happening (nor did the split proposal get removed). Time to call it for this piece of en.wiki history? – sgeureka t• c 10:40, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 10:44, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. – sgeureka t• c 10:55, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:17, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete This is pure trivia. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:22, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- KEEP notable enough it gets ample coverage in the news media. Click the Google news search at the top of the AFD and spend some time glancing over all the results. I'll see what I can add to the article. Dream Focus 17:25, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Dream Focus 17:28, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete.
User:Dream Focus says to search google news, but all I see are a bunch of clickbait listicles, not reliable sources. Besides, notability isn't the main issue brought by the nomination (although it is an issue here), the article being an "indiscriminate collection of information" is.
Mdaniels5757 (
talk)
21:54, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I added some references to reliable sources that gave significant coverage to the article already. Anyway, it is not indiscriminate, it is a list of notable information which is mentioned by reliable sources at times. The articles for all of these many notable episode articles list the couch gag in the infobox of those articles. When
CNN reviewed an episode of the show they mentioned the "jaw-dropping couch gag"
[1] as part of their review. Search the news for "the simpsons" "couch gag" "hobbit" and you'll find a lot of reliable sources talking about that, dedicating entirely articles to it like Today
[2] and Wired magazine did.
[3] The Guardian gave had an article dedicated to another episode's couch gag
[4] And so many much coverage out there. So many of these things get coverage, that proves its a notable enough thing to have a list article for.
Dream Focus
02:24, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- There is already an article dedicated to The Simpsons opening sequence, which is more than sufficient to put these references and sources. A list of couch gags is unnecessary and crufty, and is of little interest to non-fans. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 22:18, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- I added some references to reliable sources that gave significant coverage to the article already. Anyway, it is not indiscriminate, it is a list of notable information which is mentioned by reliable sources at times. The articles for all of these many notable episode articles list the couch gag in the infobox of those articles. When
CNN reviewed an episode of the show they mentioned the "jaw-dropping couch gag"
[1] as part of their review. Search the news for "the simpsons" "couch gag" "hobbit" and you'll find a lot of reliable sources talking about that, dedicating entirely articles to it like Today
[2] and Wired magazine did.
[3] The Guardian gave had an article dedicated to another episode's couch gag
[4] And so many much coverage out there. So many of these things get coverage, that proves its a notable enough thing to have a list article for.
Dream Focus
02:24, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- Weak delete. Dream Focus did raise good points and the deletes are WP:IDL and fail WP:ATA. But again, why centralize everything in a list when we have individual episode articles to cover each thing? ミラ P 15:15, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Fancrufty, non-notable list. The idea of couch gags is of course notable and can be mentioned in the main Simpsons article, but this is giving undue weight to it and belongs in Wikia. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 22:15, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- Strong Keep It is an absolute crying shame that 31 seasons of tidy history would even be considered for deletion. JPL is a one trick pony saying "delete." With his history, you should never listen to his consistent agenda to destroy wikipedia content. And obviously there are too many others like him who thoughtlessly echo delete votes. Get over the fact that we are not talking about the
Journal of American Medical Association, we are talking about a television series-one of the longest running series in television history. The couch gag is an integral element to this iconic television series. Try reading some of the 22 unique sources already listed.
Groening revealed that the couch gag was inspired by the classic “ Mickey Mouse Club” opening that concluded with Donald Duck banging a gong. The animation changed episode-to-episode, and Groening thought, “If I ever get my own show, I’ll do a Donald Duck-style gong gag.”
*Every episode of The Simpsons begins with the family congregating on the couch in front of the TV, and every episode includes a different gag during the iconic couch sequence.
*The Simpsons couch gags at the start of every episode have become iconic.
*As the odometer hit 300, USA TODAY published a two-page report – “300 reasons to love ‘The Simpsons’” – that listed, among other things, 35 couch gags
*The Simpsons' take their couch gag to Middle Earth in 'Hobbit' spoof . . . On Sunday night, the Simpson family will take trip to the same old place they end up every week — their couch.
*each week the "couch gag" involves doing something silly
*The list of memorable “Simpsons” couch gags includes Disney movies, the Game of Life, Letterman and “Breaking Bad.” At one point, the whole town showed up to join the Simpson family on the couch for some evening TV watching. And on another occasion, two Simpson families appeared.
*The famous credits gag is given a whimsical French tinge
*In advance of The Simpsons‘ 28th season premiere (Sunday, 8/7c), Fox has released the episode’s highly anticipated couch gag
*Sunday's season finale of The Simpsons will feature a couch gag crossover with Adult Swim's Rick and Morty
Thats not one source picking up on one fluke gag, those are all different sources. Clearly notable. This is wikipedia at its finest. Compiling information from a multitude of sources and keeping a coherent log that we will save. We don't have that kind of detailed information about the aforementioned Mickey Mouse Club because nobody at the time thought it was important enough to save. Maybe the Smithsonian should throw out all those old things taking up space in those rooms. And you idiots want to destroy that cataloging work and all that history. How do you sleep at night? Trackinfo ( talk) 04:52, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how many times it has to be said that the *idea* of the couch gag is not what is up for debate as notable. It's whether we need an article that is a list of trivial minutia about every single one that ever existed. FANDOM exists for things like that if you want to "catalog information" and original research about the show, but it's not suitable for Wikipedia proper. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 05:51, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- You have already stipulated this is a notable subject. As I said before, this list is exactly what wikipedia does best. To my knowledge, there is no other list like this available elsewhere on the internet. Certainly not on the #1 information site in the world. It is only fully compiled here. You are talking about destroying over 13 years of accumulated work, about 2,000 edits by at least several dozen editors compiling this data in a well organized fashion. Even if you were to merge backward to the individual shows, the juggling act of these couch gags is not remotely as apparent as it is presented here in a coherent form. Whatever
WP:wikilawyering you choose to come up with, you are making an excuse, a dastardly excuse, to destroy well done content.
Trackinfo (
talk)
21:00, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- You claim "there is no other list like this available elsewhere on the internet"
- However, that's not true. Lots of fansites list the couch gags.
- If you search Google, the first result is the Simpsons wiki [5].
- Honestly, that's probably a better place for it. ApLundell ( talk) 01:20, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- You have already stipulated this is a notable subject. As I said before, this list is exactly what wikipedia does best. To my knowledge, there is no other list like this available elsewhere on the internet. Certainly not on the #1 information site in the world. It is only fully compiled here. You are talking about destroying over 13 years of accumulated work, about 2,000 edits by at least several dozen editors compiling this data in a well organized fashion. Even if you were to merge backward to the individual shows, the juggling act of these couch gags is not remotely as apparent as it is presented here in a coherent form. Whatever
WP:wikilawyering you choose to come up with, you are making an excuse, a dastardly excuse, to destroy well done content.
Trackinfo (
talk)
21:00, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails WP:LISTN as it has not been 'discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources'. Hug syrup 10:14, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - They're covered elsewhere, so this is just unnecessary duplication. No information is lost and it solves the issue of needing to split out from a page of trivia. TTN ( talk) 13:38, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Merge notable examples to the main Simpsons page, but otherwise Delete. I know some couch gags have recieved focus (eg the Rick and Morty one, the Robot Chicken one), and some mention of these "outsourced" gags should be on the main Simpsons page. As most eps of the Simpsons are stand-alone notable, further details of the more unique couch gag can be included on those pages. But a list of these outright is inappropiate for WP. -- Masem ( t) 19:17, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Also, depending on how much one can find about this, a more thorough article describing the nature of the couch gag, listing only a few notable examples, could be had, if there is a SIZE problem at The Simpsons. "Couch gag" does seem to generate a good deal of hits, and arguably may have its own reception separate from the show. But, end of the day, the point is that a full list of the couch gags is not needed on WP. -- Masem ( t) 19:21, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete excessively trivial, notable examples can be covered in prose in other articles, as noted by Masem above. Otherwise, this seems to fail WP:LISTN; any sources that deal with this set are mostly unreliable fan blogs and the like. -- Jayron 32 16:35, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per above. While there may be sources for the concept of the couch gag in general, and some sources on a few of the individual examples, there are not any sources that would allow this entire list of every single one pass WP:LISTN. And as noted, there are already appropriate places for those bits of sourced information to be included. Rorshacma ( talk) 00:46, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. StrayBolt ( talk) 18:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. StrayBolt ( talk) 18:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. As much as I love the Simpsons, this article belongs in fandom or Wikia. It's WP:FANCRUFT. Ajf773 ( talk) 19:44, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Delete This article might attract new editors. And we all know they'd be the wrong sort. Peregrine Fisher ( talk) 02:02, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.