The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
WP:NPOV (only listing "victories" gives a very one-sided, cherry-picked view of history);
strong
WP:OVERLAP with /
WP:REDUNDANTFORK (
WP:POVFORK, given that only "victories" are listed) of better-sourced and more complete and balanced articles/lists:
Ok not really, I made that last one up. Seriously though, I don't know why WW1 German pilots who managed to shoot down other planes merit a Guinness Book of Record-ish article praising how "cool" they were. Are there any articles about how many front soldiers a French nurse saved from death after treating their wounds? Arguably she deserves more praise from humanity.
Besides, aerial combat is notorious for overclaiming how many enemy aircraft one has been able to destroy or damage. (E.g. the Russian Ministry of Defence claims to have destroyed the entire Ukrainian Air Force several times over since 24 February 2022. Similarly, the
Ghost of Kyiv was probably an exaggerated rumour on the other side). That's because it's very hard to verify, especially through visual confirmation, whether the enemy aircraft has actually been destroyed, as planes move so fast and quickly run out of sight. You might think you hit it, but did you bring it down? Your side usually does not control the alleged crash site, so you can't go there to take some pictures as evidence that you really shot someone down. So most of these lists of "aerial victories" might be full of unverifiable and unfalsifiable claims made only by one side of the conflict. Even if you could verify them, it does give you a very warped perspective of how combat-effective this person or this country was in war X or throughout history, and that is a bit of an
WP:NPOV problem.
NLeeuw (
talk)
23:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)reply
All that for a simple "no" haha. Victory is very subjective. So, there is more ability to have subjective viewpoints on battles. As a grouping I'm not sure if this would pass
WP:LISTN. I'll lean delete.
Conyo14 (
talk)
02:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
WP:NPOV (only listing "victories" gives a very one-sided, cherry-picked view of history);
strong
WP:OVERLAP with /
WP:REDUNDANTFORK (
WP:POVFORK, given that only "victories" are listed) of better-sourced and more complete and balanced articles/lists:
Ok not really, I made that last one up. Seriously though, I don't know why WW1 German pilots who managed to shoot down other planes merit a Guinness Book of Record-ish article praising how "cool" they were. Are there any articles about how many front soldiers a French nurse saved from death after treating their wounds? Arguably she deserves more praise from humanity.
Besides, aerial combat is notorious for overclaiming how many enemy aircraft one has been able to destroy or damage. (E.g. the Russian Ministry of Defence claims to have destroyed the entire Ukrainian Air Force several times over since 24 February 2022. Similarly, the
Ghost of Kyiv was probably an exaggerated rumour on the other side). That's because it's very hard to verify, especially through visual confirmation, whether the enemy aircraft has actually been destroyed, as planes move so fast and quickly run out of sight. You might think you hit it, but did you bring it down? Your side usually does not control the alleged crash site, so you can't go there to take some pictures as evidence that you really shot someone down. So most of these lists of "aerial victories" might be full of unverifiable and unfalsifiable claims made only by one side of the conflict. Even if you could verify them, it does give you a very warped perspective of how combat-effective this person or this country was in war X or throughout history, and that is a bit of an
WP:NPOV problem.
NLeeuw (
talk)
23:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)reply
All that for a simple "no" haha. Victory is very subjective. So, there is more ability to have subjective viewpoints on battles. As a grouping I'm not sure if this would pass
WP:LISTN. I'll lean delete.
Conyo14 (
talk)
02:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.