- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Jenks24 ( talk) 13:36, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- List of 4K monitors, TVs and projectors ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This list is uselessly outdated, it cannot be reasonably updated because then it would fail WP:Notability as this tech is becoming way too common. Most of the displays listed here are the very earliest ones that cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. This sort of list is appropriate for a tech in its nascence only. A mention of a few of the notable firsts could be made. B137 ( talk) 11:36, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: This same kind of list but for 8K resolution devices may be appropriate. More modest 4K devices have dropped comfortably below the $500 point, 4K make up at least have the TVs in Best Buy and similar stores these days. Just for history's sake, this page could be moved to the 8K title, as they are extraordinary and somewhat notable at this point. Currently this is the list of very limited 8K displays, cameras as well are thus far largely prototypical and discussed earlier in the article. B137 ( talk) 12:33, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: A week of no activity and I may opt for the move option, to preserve the history of early 4K devices during the time they were notable but massively redoing the article of course to cover 8K, perhaps with a section talking about the similar production history of 4K from ~2010-2013. In 2014 and 2015 they broke through the $1000 and $500 barriers, respectively. B137 ( talk) 23:28, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:32, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:35, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. This type of list is never appropriate. This is essentially a catalog or directory, and is not encyclopedic content. Pburka ( talk) 19:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Black Friday sales just announced 4K TVs 60" plus will be going for under $1000, that is as cheap as regular 1080p TVs, and these aren't grey market knockoffs. Early adopters of 4K have got to be kicking themselves in the head. Though I think the list should be moved to 8K, that is still especial tech, and I think the article should be geared more high-end and commercial. And there actually is one area where 4K has been the slowest, ironically with projectors, which are capable to be the largest displays by far, and it has left retailers to bash 4K since there are only about five 4K projectors to market for the past two years, and they are still generally five figures. It has the implication that the projection market is dying despite some significant advantages, due to the convenience of an all-in-one panel. B137 ( talk) 21:09, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep List of 4K monitors, TVs and projectors is a useful addition to the primary article which references it, 4K resolution. The list was split off from (out of) the 4K resolution article. This list grew organically in 4K resolution as more displays became available and multiple people added each particular monitor which they had seen, or were interested in. In my opinion, it is easier to have a list such as this rather than trying to have only a few examples in an article (people will continuously add the particular device they are interested in to any such list; trying to keep it pruned generates conflicts between editors and is considerably more work than having the list). At the time it was split off, it was clear the list was growing large enough such that it was distracting from the content of "4K resolution". As described in WP:SPLITLIST, the list was split off into its own set index article. The List of 4K video recording devices was also split out of the "4K resolution" article at the same time.
- 8K devices:
- The argument that 8K devices have become where the technology curve is peaking at this time is not a valid argument that a list of 4K devices should be deleted. It is an argument that a list of 8K devices may be appropriate at some time. However, my opinion is that the list of such devices in the 8K_resolution article has not yet grown to the size which would justify splitting it off from that article. In the future, it almost certainly will grow to the point where splitting the list of 8K devices into one, or more, set index articles will be appropriate.
- Outdated:
- The list being outdated is not a valid reason for deletion. It is a valid reason for editing the list and updating it. To quote DGG from an AfD discussion on very similar list of technology which has moved to be more common (mobile phones with WVGA display): "Outdated is irrelevant to notability . WP is an encyclopedia, and keeps historical information. This was of key importance a few years ago, and we should keep the record."
- — Makyen ( talk) 02:40, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep. outdated is a reason for updating, not deletion. We have many such lists of notable types of product. Whether the list should be divided is a question to be decided on the talk page, not here. I note that the need for information for customers on Black Friday is irrelevant to whether we should keep this list. We're not a consumer's guide--if we were, we would keep only current models. We're an encyclopedia, and a permanent record.
DGG (
talk )
02:49, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- While 4K televisions are a notable product category, what makes this list notable? There's no indication that any of the individual models are notable, nor is there any claim that the list itself is notable, nor is this an effective navigational aid. This is simple a (formerly exhaustive) directory of consumer products. Pburka ( talk) 16:34, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Let me point out that two years ago the number of devices was at 150, that was right before the prices started bombing. http://bgr.com/2014/01/06/ultra-hd-tv-announcements-ces-2014/ I couldn't find a more recent number for total devices but I think that itself suffices to say they are numerous and insignificant enough to no longer tally. My guess is that it is well into the thousands now between all the tvs and computer monitors and even cell phone cameras that now do 4k. Right now the "list" probably has about 15% of applicable devices. B137 ( talk) 19:48, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 15:04, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 15:04, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
- Move is my official vote, sorry for so many comments. Even though o started the AfD, I would like to move to preserve the history.
B137 (
talk)
02:22, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Move where? If you mean 8K, then I'd like to see a rationale for why such a list would be notable. Pburka ( talk) 14:32, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- (This list used to be helpful.)
- Now, it is a relic with totally out of date prices. Also, I should say the reason why I think that lists LIKE this one are very useful content. I have come across this list many times in search of a hard-to-find combination of factors: 4k, displayport, and a reasonable price tag. Lists like this one, when up to date and espeically when comparing rare/new products are very useful to Wikipedia's audience, and for one, I'd miss them. I second the comment about the list of 8k devices being more appropriate now, but bemoan the fact that no manufacturer has made a display that can serve equally well as a TV and a PC monitor :D. Faddat ( talk) 03:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. Lists of this nature are out of date the moment they are created, and trying to keep it up to date is hopeless as new models get released frequently. WP:NOTDIRECTORY -- RoySmith (talk) 00:22, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. In addition to the arguments above, this is so common a charateristic of products now that making lists about it is not compatible with WP:IINFO. Sandstein 10:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. The nominator is being very conflicting, first you create an AfD and now you propose we move the article into a page that doesn't exist, essentially recreating this list only for 8K products. That makes zero sense as we are talking about this article. Any arguments to keep are Wikipedia:ITSUSEFULL or Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Jay Jay What did I do? 21:16, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete - I tend to consider these this sort of feature-based product list to fall under WP:NOTDIRECTORY as a product catalog and WP:NTEMP as a list that's only relevant (or WP:USEFUL) for the lifespan of the product and afterwards fall into WP:INDISCRIMINATE as a collection of device specs that hold little-to-no encyclopedic value (or usefulness, except to a rare few -- but that's why there are specialist sites and databases). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 05:03, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Jenks24 ( talk) 13:36, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- List of 4K monitors, TVs and projectors ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This list is uselessly outdated, it cannot be reasonably updated because then it would fail WP:Notability as this tech is becoming way too common. Most of the displays listed here are the very earliest ones that cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. This sort of list is appropriate for a tech in its nascence only. A mention of a few of the notable firsts could be made. B137 ( talk) 11:36, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: This same kind of list but for 8K resolution devices may be appropriate. More modest 4K devices have dropped comfortably below the $500 point, 4K make up at least have the TVs in Best Buy and similar stores these days. Just for history's sake, this page could be moved to the 8K title, as they are extraordinary and somewhat notable at this point. Currently this is the list of very limited 8K displays, cameras as well are thus far largely prototypical and discussed earlier in the article. B137 ( talk) 12:33, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: A week of no activity and I may opt for the move option, to preserve the history of early 4K devices during the time they were notable but massively redoing the article of course to cover 8K, perhaps with a section talking about the similar production history of 4K from ~2010-2013. In 2014 and 2015 they broke through the $1000 and $500 barriers, respectively. B137 ( talk) 23:28, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:32, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:35, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. This type of list is never appropriate. This is essentially a catalog or directory, and is not encyclopedic content. Pburka ( talk) 19:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Black Friday sales just announced 4K TVs 60" plus will be going for under $1000, that is as cheap as regular 1080p TVs, and these aren't grey market knockoffs. Early adopters of 4K have got to be kicking themselves in the head. Though I think the list should be moved to 8K, that is still especial tech, and I think the article should be geared more high-end and commercial. And there actually is one area where 4K has been the slowest, ironically with projectors, which are capable to be the largest displays by far, and it has left retailers to bash 4K since there are only about five 4K projectors to market for the past two years, and they are still generally five figures. It has the implication that the projection market is dying despite some significant advantages, due to the convenience of an all-in-one panel. B137 ( talk) 21:09, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep List of 4K monitors, TVs and projectors is a useful addition to the primary article which references it, 4K resolution. The list was split off from (out of) the 4K resolution article. This list grew organically in 4K resolution as more displays became available and multiple people added each particular monitor which they had seen, or were interested in. In my opinion, it is easier to have a list such as this rather than trying to have only a few examples in an article (people will continuously add the particular device they are interested in to any such list; trying to keep it pruned generates conflicts between editors and is considerably more work than having the list). At the time it was split off, it was clear the list was growing large enough such that it was distracting from the content of "4K resolution". As described in WP:SPLITLIST, the list was split off into its own set index article. The List of 4K video recording devices was also split out of the "4K resolution" article at the same time.
- 8K devices:
- The argument that 8K devices have become where the technology curve is peaking at this time is not a valid argument that a list of 4K devices should be deleted. It is an argument that a list of 8K devices may be appropriate at some time. However, my opinion is that the list of such devices in the 8K_resolution article has not yet grown to the size which would justify splitting it off from that article. In the future, it almost certainly will grow to the point where splitting the list of 8K devices into one, or more, set index articles will be appropriate.
- Outdated:
- The list being outdated is not a valid reason for deletion. It is a valid reason for editing the list and updating it. To quote DGG from an AfD discussion on very similar list of technology which has moved to be more common (mobile phones with WVGA display): "Outdated is irrelevant to notability . WP is an encyclopedia, and keeps historical information. This was of key importance a few years ago, and we should keep the record."
- — Makyen ( talk) 02:40, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep. outdated is a reason for updating, not deletion. We have many such lists of notable types of product. Whether the list should be divided is a question to be decided on the talk page, not here. I note that the need for information for customers on Black Friday is irrelevant to whether we should keep this list. We're not a consumer's guide--if we were, we would keep only current models. We're an encyclopedia, and a permanent record.
DGG (
talk )
02:49, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- While 4K televisions are a notable product category, what makes this list notable? There's no indication that any of the individual models are notable, nor is there any claim that the list itself is notable, nor is this an effective navigational aid. This is simple a (formerly exhaustive) directory of consumer products. Pburka ( talk) 16:34, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Let me point out that two years ago the number of devices was at 150, that was right before the prices started bombing. http://bgr.com/2014/01/06/ultra-hd-tv-announcements-ces-2014/ I couldn't find a more recent number for total devices but I think that itself suffices to say they are numerous and insignificant enough to no longer tally. My guess is that it is well into the thousands now between all the tvs and computer monitors and even cell phone cameras that now do 4k. Right now the "list" probably has about 15% of applicable devices. B137 ( talk) 19:48, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 15:04, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 15:04, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
- Move is my official vote, sorry for so many comments. Even though o started the AfD, I would like to move to preserve the history.
B137 (
talk)
02:22, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Move where? If you mean 8K, then I'd like to see a rationale for why such a list would be notable. Pburka ( talk) 14:32, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- (This list used to be helpful.)
- Now, it is a relic with totally out of date prices. Also, I should say the reason why I think that lists LIKE this one are very useful content. I have come across this list many times in search of a hard-to-find combination of factors: 4k, displayport, and a reasonable price tag. Lists like this one, when up to date and espeically when comparing rare/new products are very useful to Wikipedia's audience, and for one, I'd miss them. I second the comment about the list of 8k devices being more appropriate now, but bemoan the fact that no manufacturer has made a display that can serve equally well as a TV and a PC monitor :D. Faddat ( talk) 03:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. Lists of this nature are out of date the moment they are created, and trying to keep it up to date is hopeless as new models get released frequently. WP:NOTDIRECTORY -- RoySmith (talk) 00:22, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. In addition to the arguments above, this is so common a charateristic of products now that making lists about it is not compatible with WP:IINFO. Sandstein 10:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. The nominator is being very conflicting, first you create an AfD and now you propose we move the article into a page that doesn't exist, essentially recreating this list only for 8K products. That makes zero sense as we are talking about this article. Any arguments to keep are Wikipedia:ITSUSEFULL or Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Jay Jay What did I do? 21:16, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete - I tend to consider these this sort of feature-based product list to fall under WP:NOTDIRECTORY as a product catalog and WP:NTEMP as a list that's only relevant (or WP:USEFUL) for the lifespan of the product and afterwards fall into WP:INDISCRIMINATE as a collection of device specs that hold little-to-no encyclopedic value (or usefulness, except to a rare few -- but that's why there are specialist sites and databases). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 05:03, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.