- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Fenix down ( talk) 14:16, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Leanne Slater
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Leanne Slater ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Soccer player who played 12 games in an amateur competition, so fails every Wikipedia policy and inclusion guideline. Geschichte ( talk) 13:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone 16:26, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep for the same reason I already gave at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angela Fimmano. Her league is the top league in her country. Insisting that only a "fully professional" league should count, whatever that is supposed to mean, imposes a biased double standard in which nothing a women does is considered good enough, while men are still considered notable by playing only one professional game. That standard is bigoted and wrong. We should either keep this article as someone who reached the highest available pinnacle of her sport, or get rid of NSPORT and consider all athletes properly under GNG on an individual basis, not starting by nominating only womens-league athletes. — David Eppstein ( talk) 17:04, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - whilst I would disagree with the W-League being classified as an amateur competition, I do believe that these articles should be required to pass WP:GNG or at least have one source showing WP:SIGCOV to be kept. If anyone does find such sources, please ping me Spiderone 18:00, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 21:18, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- A source for the league calls it a professional league so where is this amateur tag coming from? Provide a source that specifically calls the league an amateur league. NFOOTBALL is unreliable as far as I am concerned so is irrelevant. GNG is the only thing that matters. No sources are provided for her in the article and few sources are found when doing a search. It could be that it's sexism or societal bias against women's sports and athletes but help me prove something. Provide one source that is verifiable and independent. -- Tsistunagiska ( talk) 20:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - the nomination statement by
User:Geschichte is false, as this is most definitely a professional, and not an amateur league. Two years ago the minimum salary was increased as per
this. This means that none of the players are amateur. It doesn't mean it's fully-professional - but the claim it's amateur is 100% false. And if this is wrong, what else is wrong?
Nfitz (
talk)
22:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- She last played in the league in 2012, so the payrise in 2018 is not really relevant, and that article even says "Previously, many players were considered amateur". So when she played in the league, it most definitely was an amateur league.
Fram (
talk)
07:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- She played from 2008 to 2014. This 2013
article discusses the salary cap. As far as I know, the league was created as professional in 2008 and was never an amateur league. It's very clear it isn't fully-professional, but it's certainly not amateur,
User:Fram.
- "Amateur" doesn't mean "unpaid", it means that you do it besides a job and that you can't get a decent living from playing. With a roster salary cap of US$125,000 per season (or $7,000 per player if you have a very small roster of only 18 players), you don't get professional football players (or alternatively you get three or four pro's, and the rest don't get paid at all). Oh, and our article states that she played no later than the 2011-2012 season, where did you get 2014? As far as I can tell, she played in 12 matches (5 full, others substituted in or out) spread over 2 seasons. Oh, and the salary cap is a maximum, in reality the clubs didn't even reach that figure: in 2014,"Sydney FC’s players are paid from $1000 to $6000" (I have no reason to assume something fundamentally different for Adelaide)
[1].
Fram (
talk)
15:01, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- No,
User:Fram, in soccer at least, that's
semi-professional. Players have been literally
stripped of their amateur status for being unpaid on teams in this league. 15:05, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- In America, yeah. Their double standards are quite outside the scope of this AfD though. In any case, the league wasn't fully professional by 2014 (two years after she stopped playing in it), and with players getting e.g. $1000 a year, it was clearly still far removed from it.
Fram (
talk)
15:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Or most any English-speaking nation. It's still not fully-professional
User:Fram, virtually no women's league is - which leads to
WP:BIAS issues. My point however, is that the nomination statement is false. This user seems particularly prone to exaggerated nomination statements; that they still haven't thought to correct it says it all (it also seems unlikely they only played 12 times in 6 years). There may be grounds for deletion, but with a nomination statement this poor, there's no way it should be supported.
Nfitz (
talk)
18:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well, I see others claiming that she played until 2014, and doubting the 12 games in 6 years (well, just two years and a gap between them), without either checking their facts or correcting their claims either. I don't think playing that card is particularly useful if you don't make sure that your own claims are impeccable, and the "amateur" or "semi-professional" distinction hardly matters when there simply aren't the necessary sources to meet the GNG. Fram ( talk) 08:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Or most any English-speaking nation. It's still not fully-professional
User:Fram, virtually no women's league is - which leads to
WP:BIAS issues. My point however, is that the nomination statement is false. This user seems particularly prone to exaggerated nomination statements; that they still haven't thought to correct it says it all (it also seems unlikely they only played 12 times in 6 years). There may be grounds for deletion, but with a nomination statement this poor, there's no way it should be supported.
Nfitz (
talk)
18:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- In America, yeah. Their double standards are quite outside the scope of this AfD though. In any case, the league wasn't fully professional by 2014 (two years after she stopped playing in it), and with players getting e.g. $1000 a year, it was clearly still far removed from it.
Fram (
talk)
15:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- No,
User:Fram, in soccer at least, that's
semi-professional. Players have been literally
stripped of their amateur status for being unpaid on teams in this league. 15:05, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- "Amateur" doesn't mean "unpaid", it means that you do it besides a job and that you can't get a decent living from playing. With a roster salary cap of US$125,000 per season (or $7,000 per player if you have a very small roster of only 18 players), you don't get professional football players (or alternatively you get three or four pro's, and the rest don't get paid at all). Oh, and our article states that she played no later than the 2011-2012 season, where did you get 2014? As far as I can tell, she played in 12 matches (5 full, others substituted in or out) spread over 2 seasons. Oh, and the salary cap is a maximum, in reality the clubs didn't even reach that figure: in 2014,"Sydney FC’s players are paid from $1000 to $6000" (I have no reason to assume something fundamentally different for Adelaide)
[1].
Fram (
talk)
15:01, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- She played from 2008 to 2014. This 2013
article discusses the salary cap. As far as I know, the league was created as professional in 2008 and was never an amateur league. It's very clear it isn't fully-professional, but it's certainly not amateur,
User:Fram.
- She last played in the league in 2012, so the payrise in 2018 is not really relevant, and that article even says "Previously, many players were considered amateur". So when she played in the league, it most definitely was an amateur league.
Fram (
talk)
07:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Dougal18 ( talk) 15:47, 31 October 2020 (UTC)~
- Delete, no notability has been established. Fram ( talk) 07:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Fenix down ( talk) 14:16, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Leanne Slater
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Leanne Slater ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Soccer player who played 12 games in an amateur competition, so fails every Wikipedia policy and inclusion guideline. Geschichte ( talk) 13:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:35, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone 16:26, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep for the same reason I already gave at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angela Fimmano. Her league is the top league in her country. Insisting that only a "fully professional" league should count, whatever that is supposed to mean, imposes a biased double standard in which nothing a women does is considered good enough, while men are still considered notable by playing only one professional game. That standard is bigoted and wrong. We should either keep this article as someone who reached the highest available pinnacle of her sport, or get rid of NSPORT and consider all athletes properly under GNG on an individual basis, not starting by nominating only womens-league athletes. — David Eppstein ( talk) 17:04, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - whilst I would disagree with the W-League being classified as an amateur competition, I do believe that these articles should be required to pass WP:GNG or at least have one source showing WP:SIGCOV to be kept. If anyone does find such sources, please ping me Spiderone 18:00, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 21:18, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- A source for the league calls it a professional league so where is this amateur tag coming from? Provide a source that specifically calls the league an amateur league. NFOOTBALL is unreliable as far as I am concerned so is irrelevant. GNG is the only thing that matters. No sources are provided for her in the article and few sources are found when doing a search. It could be that it's sexism or societal bias against women's sports and athletes but help me prove something. Provide one source that is verifiable and independent. -- Tsistunagiska ( talk) 20:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - the nomination statement by
User:Geschichte is false, as this is most definitely a professional, and not an amateur league. Two years ago the minimum salary was increased as per
this. This means that none of the players are amateur. It doesn't mean it's fully-professional - but the claim it's amateur is 100% false. And if this is wrong, what else is wrong?
Nfitz (
talk)
22:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- She last played in the league in 2012, so the payrise in 2018 is not really relevant, and that article even says "Previously, many players were considered amateur". So when she played in the league, it most definitely was an amateur league.
Fram (
talk)
07:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- She played from 2008 to 2014. This 2013
article discusses the salary cap. As far as I know, the league was created as professional in 2008 and was never an amateur league. It's very clear it isn't fully-professional, but it's certainly not amateur,
User:Fram.
- "Amateur" doesn't mean "unpaid", it means that you do it besides a job and that you can't get a decent living from playing. With a roster salary cap of US$125,000 per season (or $7,000 per player if you have a very small roster of only 18 players), you don't get professional football players (or alternatively you get three or four pro's, and the rest don't get paid at all). Oh, and our article states that she played no later than the 2011-2012 season, where did you get 2014? As far as I can tell, she played in 12 matches (5 full, others substituted in or out) spread over 2 seasons. Oh, and the salary cap is a maximum, in reality the clubs didn't even reach that figure: in 2014,"Sydney FC’s players are paid from $1000 to $6000" (I have no reason to assume something fundamentally different for Adelaide)
[1].
Fram (
talk)
15:01, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- No,
User:Fram, in soccer at least, that's
semi-professional. Players have been literally
stripped of their amateur status for being unpaid on teams in this league. 15:05, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- In America, yeah. Their double standards are quite outside the scope of this AfD though. In any case, the league wasn't fully professional by 2014 (two years after she stopped playing in it), and with players getting e.g. $1000 a year, it was clearly still far removed from it.
Fram (
talk)
15:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Or most any English-speaking nation. It's still not fully-professional
User:Fram, virtually no women's league is - which leads to
WP:BIAS issues. My point however, is that the nomination statement is false. This user seems particularly prone to exaggerated nomination statements; that they still haven't thought to correct it says it all (it also seems unlikely they only played 12 times in 6 years). There may be grounds for deletion, but with a nomination statement this poor, there's no way it should be supported.
Nfitz (
talk)
18:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well, I see others claiming that she played until 2014, and doubting the 12 games in 6 years (well, just two years and a gap between them), without either checking their facts or correcting their claims either. I don't think playing that card is particularly useful if you don't make sure that your own claims are impeccable, and the "amateur" or "semi-professional" distinction hardly matters when there simply aren't the necessary sources to meet the GNG. Fram ( talk) 08:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Or most any English-speaking nation. It's still not fully-professional
User:Fram, virtually no women's league is - which leads to
WP:BIAS issues. My point however, is that the nomination statement is false. This user seems particularly prone to exaggerated nomination statements; that they still haven't thought to correct it says it all (it also seems unlikely they only played 12 times in 6 years). There may be grounds for deletion, but with a nomination statement this poor, there's no way it should be supported.
Nfitz (
talk)
18:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- In America, yeah. Their double standards are quite outside the scope of this AfD though. In any case, the league wasn't fully professional by 2014 (two years after she stopped playing in it), and with players getting e.g. $1000 a year, it was clearly still far removed from it.
Fram (
talk)
15:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- No,
User:Fram, in soccer at least, that's
semi-professional. Players have been literally
stripped of their amateur status for being unpaid on teams in this league. 15:05, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- "Amateur" doesn't mean "unpaid", it means that you do it besides a job and that you can't get a decent living from playing. With a roster salary cap of US$125,000 per season (or $7,000 per player if you have a very small roster of only 18 players), you don't get professional football players (or alternatively you get three or four pro's, and the rest don't get paid at all). Oh, and our article states that she played no later than the 2011-2012 season, where did you get 2014? As far as I can tell, she played in 12 matches (5 full, others substituted in or out) spread over 2 seasons. Oh, and the salary cap is a maximum, in reality the clubs didn't even reach that figure: in 2014,"Sydney FC’s players are paid from $1000 to $6000" (I have no reason to assume something fundamentally different for Adelaide)
[1].
Fram (
talk)
15:01, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- She played from 2008 to 2014. This 2013
article discusses the salary cap. As far as I know, the league was created as professional in 2008 and was never an amateur league. It's very clear it isn't fully-professional, but it's certainly not amateur,
User:Fram.
- She last played in the league in 2012, so the payrise in 2018 is not really relevant, and that article even says "Previously, many players were considered amateur". So when she played in the league, it most definitely was an amateur league.
Fram (
talk)
07:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Dougal18 ( talk) 15:47, 31 October 2020 (UTC)~
- Delete, no notability has been established. Fram ( talk) 07:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.