The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Options ranged between delete, rename, merge and keep, with no side really having a clear consensus above the others. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:55, 9 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Koreatown, Palisades Park

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Despite the large number of sources contained in this article, it is pure WP:SYNTH. What is true is that the town of Palisades Park has a large Korean population and has been nicknamed "Koreatown". But there is no Koreatown section or Koreatown neighborhood. (This article gives boundaries, but I can't find any reliable source that supports this) The name is applied to the entire town. Most of the sources do even use the term "Koreatown", but the ones that do refer to the Palisades Park as a whole. I would not oppose some of the content here being selectively merged to the Palisades Park article (the parts that don't already overlap or fall into WP:NOTNEWS), but I do not endorse leaving a redirect. Rusf10 ( talk) 05:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 05:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 05:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 05:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 05:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

• Merge/delete Palisades Park is just 1.2 square miles, so the idea that there's a distinct neighborhood within it called Koreatown seems ridiculous and unsupported by the sources, especially with 65% of the 20,000 people being Korean. The borough's article should cover this history and culture that is integral to the borough itself, not an article pretending to be a separate place. Koreatown, Fort Lee also seems questionable. Reywas92 ^Talk 06:34, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply
• Merge/delete and I agree, the Fort Lee article seems dubious, too. From what I can see, it's contiguous to Palisades Park, so are we even talking about the same district spread across two towns? Fails WP:GEOLAND. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 09:08, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

@ Alexandermcnabb:I followed your suggestion, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koreatown, Fort Lee. OF the two articles, I actually think that one is worse.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 15:26, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

• Keep separately: No. For those who are knowledgeable, the two Korean business districts are separate from each other, separated by larges residential areas, and each carries its own flavor and vibe: Koreatown, Palisades Park carries a more mom-and-pop retail presencece while Koreatwon, Fort Lee embodies a more high-end, upscale corporate and financial presence. They are distinct WP: NOTABLE entities indeed. Castncoot ( talk) 17:10, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

  This makes no sense. Yes there are two separate Koreatowns, but they correspond to two separate municipalities. Yes Palisades Park and Fort Lee are distinct, but the Koreatowns are not a second-degree level of distinct requiring four articles. The residential parts would also be part of the respective Koreatowns. Reywas92 ^Talk 17:55, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

  • Koreatown is what any distinctly Korean neighborhood anywhere (except Korea) is called. The existence of a Koreatown elsewhere is, as far as I can tell, absolutely irrelevant to this discussion. Care to clarify, Castncoot? 174.212.227.187 ( talk) 18:11, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply
    • Reply: Yes, @174.212.227.187, you are absolutely correct- the existence of one Koreatown is entirely independent and irrelevant of another Koreatown. Castncoot ( talk) 12:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
• That is not what is being discussed here. We're not talking about merging the Koreatown, Palisades Park and Koreatown, Fort Lee articles together, but we're talking about merging the Koreatown, Palisades Park and Palisades Park, New Jersey articles. Eccekevin ( talk) 18:16, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep - A BEFORE search shows that there are reliable sources for Koreatown in addition to the ones in the article already. I'm really perplexed why these two articles were nominated for deletion; and feel strongly that both articles should be retained in the encyclopedia. As someone who has lived in NY since the 80s I've not only visited both of these Koreatowns (Palisades Park and Fort Lee) numerous times in the the past several decades I'd heard about these communities before even moving to the East Coast! While such personal anectdotes mean nothing in an AfD, the available sourcing over the years pre-and post-internet eras make these two articles a solid WP:GNG pass. To delete them would be a loss for our readers and for the encyclopedia. Netherzone ( talk) 23:18, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

@ Netherzone:No one denies that these communities have a large Korean population, but there is no Koreatown within Palisades Park. I have been to both of these towns myself too (many times). The term has been used to describe the town as a whole. Find a reliable source that says there is a Koreatown section, neighborhood, or district within Palisades Park. It doesn't exist. The "Koreatown" nickname can be adequately covered within the Palisades Park article.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 23:29, 16 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Palisade Park Koreatown IS Palisades Park, I was unable to find any sources attesting to what parts of the town would be Koreatown and which aren't since it's so small, and the article just refers to the general Korean population and culture of the town. No one's suggesting that the Korean community there doesn't exist, but that it's not a separate topic for a suburb of 20,000 which has this nickname as a whole. By the way, I transferred a bunch of content to the Palisades Park article since so much of it was relevant to Palisades Park at large (while some of the rest is about other places in Bergen County and irrelevant here) so it's absurd to suggest losing this as a separate page is a detriment. Reywas92 ^Talk 01:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply

That is not what is being discussed here. We're not talking about merging the Koreatown, Palisades Park and Koreatown, Fort Lee articles together, but we're talking about merging the Koreatown, Palisades Park and Palisades Park, New Jersey articles. Eccekevin ( talk) 18:17, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply

• Merge/delete per User talk:Reywas92 and User talk:Rusf10. Seems like Koreatown, Palisades Park and Palisades Park, New Jersey are the same thing, so the article is redundant. Eccekevin ( talk) 02:47, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Reply: They couldn't be more different within the bounds of both being Koreatowns: these two different Koreatowns are both entirely distinct from each other not only physically and are separated by large residential neighborhoods, but also are quite differenet culturally, and each meets WP:NOTABILITY crieria. Koreatown, Palisades Park has a mom-and-pop business presence, while on the other hand, Koreatown, Fort Lee has a strong and upscale financial and corporate presence. Castncoot ( talk) 12:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
    • Again, nobody is suggesting that the Palisades Park and Fort Lee articles be merged, so what you wrote here is irrelevant.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 14:38, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
      • ??? Castncoot ( talk) 14:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
        • I never mentioned Fort Lee. I am saying that these two articles should be merged: Koreatown, Palisades Park and Palisades Park, New Jersey. Eccekevin ( talk) 18:09, 17 May 2021 (UTC) reply
          • I believe you have conflated two entirely different conceptual entities: Palisades Park, New Jersey is actually a political and administrative legal and official municipal entity. Koreatown, Palisades Park, very differently and on the other hand, describes an ethnocultural locational phenomenon. Castncoot ( talk) 14:21, 18 May 2021 (UTC) reply
            • I'm not sure why articles about municipalities would be limited to their political and administrative statistics; there's no reason to separate the culture and history of a town from other information about a town. Reywas92 ^Talk 18:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC) reply
• Merge to Koreatown#Bergen County (selective) using info relevant to the topic.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Djflem ( talk) 11:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep clearly a well-established ,defined, commercial, ethnic enclave. Djflem ( talk) 14:40, 19 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Morgan, Arlene Notoro; Pifer, Alice Irene; Woods, Keith (2006). "The Authentic Voice: The Best Reporting on Race and Ethnicity". Columbia University Press. ISBN  9780231132893. Broad Avenue is the fulcrum of something larger: a parallel universe - that re-creates American traditions in Korean style. Koreans call it "Koreatown".

Ph.D, Reed Ueda (September 21, 2017). "America's Changing Neighborhoods: An Exploration of Diversity through Places [3 volumes]". ABC-CLIO. ISBN  9781440828652. Koreans have given rise to ethnic enclave businesses...Koreans operate 95% of all businesses around the mle-long commercial strip of Broad Avenue.

Llorente, Elizabeth (August 23, 1998). "Palisades Park Grapples with Change". The Record. Retrieved May 16, 2021.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Djflem ( talk • contribs)

• • Except for a town of 20,000, there is no need for separate articles for neighborhoods or enclaves in the first place, no matter how real it is. Palisades Park, New Jersey now has all of this page's information, and it would be a disservice to enclave the content since it's relevant to the borough's history and culture generally. Reywas92 ^Talk 18:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC) reply

So, it's real. (changing the goal post?). No disservice done to further expand on the phenomenon and enclave, (which should include its context within Bergen County, as any truly informative, academic work would since it is very very much part of the story that goes beyond municipal borders). Besides the info was sloppily transferred, messing up target artcle and creating Wikipedia:WEIGHT problem. Djflem ( talk) 21:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC) reply

If you've ever been to the town, you'd know the entire town has a large Korean population, there is no Koreatown neighborhood. All reliable sources also recognize this fact. There is no "Koreatown" within Palisades Park. Palisades Park is "Koreatown".-- Rusf10 ( talk) 05:17, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

(If you've ridden the Lexington Avenue uptown express line you'll know that the 4th and 5th cars are closest to the exit at 86th Street) But to answer original research: If you've ever been to the town, you'd know the Broad Avenue is the commercial, retail, hospitality destination which serves the broader Bergen County Korean community as well as other residents, visitors and tourists. Djflem ( talk) 15:55, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Not sure what Lexington Ave line has to do with this, that's in New York. But Koreans live in all parts of the roughly 1 sq mile town, not just on Broad Ave. Broad Ave just happens to be the town's main street.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 16:28, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

The subway nothing to do with it, just as whether you or anybody else has been to PalPark does either. (comments based on that:OR). The main street, Broad Avenue, is known as Koreatown.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Djflem ( talk) 19:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

So now the article is supposedly about a street not an area of town? Where is your source that Broad Avenue has been renamed Koreatown? I have seen no source that calls it Koreatown Avenue.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 19:25, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Funny, because this article isn't about Broad Avenue! It has demographics of all of Palisades Park. It has political leaders of all of Palisades Park. It has cultural info about the high school and broader community. Again, most towns have a main commercial area that may be called "Downtown" or something else reflecting its history or culture like "Koreatown" (which here reflects the whole and you can usually find sources about that "commercial, retail, hospitality destination" but that doesn't mean it needs a separate article for a small city's downtown or ethnic community, since the main article should have this info anyway. Reywas92 ^Talk 18:45, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Funny, but if you look at most of the references and to Koreatown they are discussing Koreatown/Broad Avenue as a commercial, retail, hospitality destination. Funny, too how they also discuss the how Koreatown has lots of Koreans/Korean-American run business and how that came to be, which should certainly be included in an article how the district/strip came into existence and why it exists, just like a good report, academic article, & a good encyclopedia should. It's called background/context. (If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a candidate for AfD.) Djflem ( talk) 19:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC) reply

Everything you say, User talk:Djflem, keeps proving the point that all this information about Koreatown should be in the Palisades Park article, hence no need for a duplciate article. Eccekevin ( talk) 00:03, 22 May 2021 (UTC) reply

• Merge/delete. As per Reywas92. MrsSnoozyTurtle 00:52, 5 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• HEY: May 16<> June 5 substantially different versions. Djflem ( talk) 06:24, 5 June 2021 (UTC) reply

My !vote was based on the 5 June version, where I believe these issues still apply. MrsSnoozyTurtle 07:08, 5 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Your !vote refrs to an opinion. What about the sources, supporting GNG, which state:

• "Broad Avenue is the fulcrum of something larger: a parallel universe - that re-creates American traditions in Korean style. Koreans call it "Koreatown"."
• "Koreans have given rise to ethnic enclave businesses...Koreans operate 95% of all businesses around the mile-long commercial strip of Broad Avenue."
• "The Korean business district in Palisades Park: on ten blocks along Broad Avenue, on a few blocks along Grand Avenue, and a few blocks along Bergen Boulevard. This business district created in a very suburban Korean enclave has no high buildings and no major shopping malls."
• " "Broad Avenue, the street running through the center of the borough is considered to be the heart of the Korean American commercial district in Bergen County. The avenue is full of Korean businesses for 13 blocks (between Harriet Avenue and Oakdene Avenue, southwest to northeast, respectively). Almost all the store signs are in Korean only or English/Korean bilingual (Figure 3.5), and there are also a lot of chain stores which came directly from Korea such as ‘Paris Baguette’ (popular Korean bakery chain) and ‘Caffe Bene’ (popular Korean coffee shop chain). Broad Avenue of Palisades Park provides the biggest and densest Korean commercial district among the Korean American commercial districts in Bergen County."— Preceding unsigned comment added by Djflem ( talk • contribs)

You need to stop WP:BLUDGEONING. Its been said multiple times already, there is no Koreatown district/neighborhood/section, the term when used refers to the entire town.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 15:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Talk about Wikipedia:BLUDGEON. How many times are your going to repeat your statement void of any Wikipediapolicy or guideline.

Four times so far:

"But there is no Koreatown section or Koreatown neighborhood."

"there is no Koreatown neighborhood.

"There is no "Koreatown"

"there is no Koreatown district/neighborhood/section"

When are you going to address the sources and references in the article and stop repeating your useless personal claim? Djflem ( talk) 20:22, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• @ Reywas92, Alexandermcnabb, Eccekevin, and MrsSnoozyTurtle:Does "Merge/Delete" mean to merge the relevant content and then delete the page (ie. do NOT leave a redirect)? I just wanted to clarify for the closer of the discussion.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 15:19, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

For me, I would merge the content into Palisades park and delete/salt the Koreatown page. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 15:24, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

I'm fine with a redirect. There's nothing left to merge. Reywas92 ^Talk 18:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• What the closer needs to do is determine whether explanation put forth and references provided satisfiy Wikipedia policies (GNG and verifiabilty) and ignore insipid claims (particularly the [[Wikipedia:Don't bludgeon the process|bludgeoning by the nominator, Rusf10) that "conveniently" do not address those references to promote their Wikipedia:I just don't like it opinions. Djflem ( talk) 19:58, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply
  • @ Djflem:Are you serious??? You have commented here 11 times here (more than any other person) and your comments take up roughly a third of this page. And you're accusing me of bludgeoning? Don't make me laugh. It is not a "personal claim" that there is no Koreatown within Palisades Park, the sources are clear on this. I will tell you one last time, what the sources actually do say is that the term Koreatown is sometimes used to refer the entire town. If that is too difficult for you to understand, I can't help you.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 20:42, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Everyone is allowed their opinions and personal claims, yours now made five times. Well, here's some others - NOT used as references - so spare us all that rant if you can manage - REPEAT: they are NOT references: just other people who, like you, who have a personal opinion. (Again, you do not note that they are NOT presented as references, got it? NOT), But if you do have a specific comment about a specific citation (one assumes you've read them), please share, instead of making vague claims. These personal commentaries are at least supported with more than just words, like yours, making them more valid. Or do also claim that your personal opinion is better substantiated?

• A guide through Koreatown in Palisades Park
• Walking Koreatown, New Jersey : Broad Avenue, Palisades Park
• Koreatown at Palisades Park
• "Koreatown, Palisades Park, Bergen County, NJ". Bergen County Review.
• Sobko, Katie. "In Palisades Park's Koreatown, hope and pride running high". North Jersey Media Group.

Djflem ( talk) 21:31, 6 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Djflem, I agree that there is definitely some serious WP:BLUDGEON happening here. But it is not by the nominator... Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 11:41, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• Keep and consider rename to History of Koreans in Palisades Parks or Koreans in Palisades Parks per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
  1. Oh, Sookhee (2017). "Bergen County, Korean Enclaves (New Jersey)". In Ueda, Reed (ed.). America's Changing Neighborhoods: An Exploration of Diversity through Places [3 volumes]. Santa Barbara, California: Greenwood Publishing Group. pp. 289–294. ISBN  978-1-4408-2864-5. Retrieved 2021-06-07.

     The book has a section titled "Palisades Park Enclave". The book notes on page 289: "Palisades Park, located in southeastern Bergen County, became the epicenter of the Korean enclaves in Bergen County and includes the census tract with 59% Koreans. ... Indeed, Palisades Park has the largest Korean concentration among U.S. cities."

     The book notes on page 290: "Koreans have given rise to ethnic enclave businesses in Palisades Park and Fort Lee. In 1990, there were only 20 Korean businesses on the main commercial street (Broad Avenue of Palisades Park and Main Street of Fort Lee); there were more than 350 businesses in 2012 counted by Min (Min 2012a). Koreans operate 95% of all businesses around the mile-long commercial strip along Broad Avenue. [Discussion about economic decline because of a recession in the 1980s and the effects on Palisades Park] Koreans saw this as an opporutnity to establish their businesses. Longtime residents acknowledge that Koreans have reviveed the dying local economy."

     The book notes on page 290 that "Korean Americans' political representation in Palisades Park lagged behind their demographic and economic dominance" but they have increased their representation. The book notes on page 292: "Opposition to the rapid growth of Korean community from longtime residents has also risen. This sentiment was reflected on national television when, in July 1999, ABC News's Nightline aired an episode about Palisades Park, titled "New Faces on Main Street: The Melting Pot That Isn't" (Ahn 2005). A rally was held in Palisades Park in 1999 to protest a series of the local ordinances enacted and discriminatory incidents (e.g., anti-Korean graffiti) against Korean merchants and students."

     The book notes on page 293: "Broad Avenue in Palisades Park is called a Korean food walk of fame."

  2. Pérez-Peña, Richard (2010-12-15). "Palisades Park Journal: As Koreans Pour In, a Town Is Remade". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07.

     The article notes: "But none more so than Palisades Park, whose population is now 54 percent Asian-American and 44 percent Korean-American, the Census Bureau reported this week. ... Major population centers like Queens and Los Angeles have more Koreans, but Palisades Park, with fewer than 20,000 people, is, proportionally, the most heavily Korean municipality in the country, according to Pyong Gap Min, a distinguished professor of sociology at Queens College." The article further notes: "The Korean presence is growing fast; the 2000 census found that 31 percent of Palisades Park residents were Korean-American. The 44 percent figure came from surveys taken from 2005 to 2009, and local Korean leaders predict that the figure will be higher when 2010 census numbers are released next year. ... Palisades Park has not endured the kind of violent clashes that sometimes accompany ethnic transitions, but neither has its transformation been trouble-free."

  3. Llorente, Elizabeth. (1998-08-23). "A tale of two cultures: Palisades Park grapples with change" (pages 1, 2, and 3). The Record. Archived from the original (pages 1, 2, and 3) on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07 – via Newspapers.com.

     The article notes: "Then came the immigrants from Korea, who looked at the struggling avenue and saw a path to the American dream. ... The number of Korea shops soared, from a handful in the late 1980s, to 95 percent of the 200-store commercial district today." The article further notes, "Broad Avenue is the fulcrum of something larger: a parallel universe that re-creates American traditions in Korean style. Koreans call it "Koreatown." It boasts child-care centers, churches, sports games, a Korean class mother for every non-Korean one, and a parent-school group set up by and for Koreans."

  4. Rain, Lisa. (1991-11-24). "Immigrants move warily across cultural barriers" (pages 1 and 2). The Record. Archived from the original (pages 1 and 2) on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07.

     The article notes: "The change that swept East Edsall Boulevard has been repeated on just about every street in Palisades Park, where now one in four residents is Korean. ... A vast Koreatown has sprung up in North Jersey, recharging flagging downtowns and buoying real estate markets in many towns. It includes 130 churches, 30 restaurants, 270 dry cleaners, nail salons, and groceries; 30 fraternal business groups, five newspapers, and the American headquarters for at least 50 Korean corporations."

  5. Sobko, Katie (2018-02-09). "In Palisades Park's Koreatown, hope and pride running high". North Jersey Media Group. Archived from the original on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07.

     The article notes: "Bergen County has the nation's highest concentration of people of Korean heritage. Edgewater, Fort Lee, Leonia and other Bergen County towns are also rich in Korean culture. but Palisades Park, with its strip of shops and restaurants on Broad Avenue dubbed 'Koreatown,' is the heart of the community."

  6. Kussin, Zachary (2018-02-23). "New Jersey's little-known Koreatown is better than NYC's". New York Post. Archived from the original on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07.

     The article notes: "A visit to Manhattan’s Koreatown, on West 32nd Street, often requires dodging crowds. Just 30 minutes across the Hudson River from Port Authority on NJ Transit busses ($4.50, round trip) is a more laid-back Koreatown in Palisades Park, NJ. It has enough restaurants, karaoke spots and signs in Hangul script to keep any Korea fix going long after the Olympics."

  7. Harrison, Karen Tina (2007-12-19). "Seoul Mates. Thriving Korean communities make Fort Lee and Palisades Park a boon to epicures". New Jersey Monthly. Archived from the original on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07.

     The article notes: "In the last twelve months, Palisades Park has seen the opening of the first American branch of a large Korean shoe company (Kumkang); the third American franchise of a Korean body products and cosmetics company (Face Shop); and the first East Coast shop in a 1,500-store Korean bakery and coffeehouse chain (Paris Baguette). ... Palisades Park, Broad Avenue is a Korean food walk of fame. Signs in both Korean and English announce bars, bakeries, groceries, take-out shops, noodle houses, and bulgogi restaurants."

  8. Mooney, John; Rain, Lisa (1992-05-08). "For some, L.A.'s pain bridges time, distance". The Record. Archived from the original on 2021-06-07. Retrieved 2021-06-07 – via Newspapers.com.

     The article notes: "The year-old Palisades Park Korean-American Chamber of Commerce, of which Nam is chairman, raised $2,400 from its 40 members."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Koreatown, Palisades ParkKoreans in Palisades Park to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard ( talk) 01:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• The nominator never claimed this is an issue of notability. Half of the sources you just cited are already in the article, and, since one of the nom's arguments is WP:SYNTH, it's up to someone else to claim that this isn't the case, which is not what you've done here. Avilich ( talk) 02:22, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• WP:SYNTH says, "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources." I don't see any synthesis happening in the article's content. The sources all discuss Koreans in Palisades Park and aside from the sources not all discussing Koreatown in Palisades Park, the sources are not being used to "reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources". To address the concern that some of the sources do not use the word "Koreatown", a Wikipedia:Requested moves can be opened to consider renaming the article to History of Koreans in Palisades Parks or Koreans in Palisades Parks since that topic clearly passes Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. This would match other articles in Category:Korean-American culture by city that follow the "History of Koreans in [place]" or "Koreans in [place]" naming format. I would strongly oppose a merge because there is more than enough material in the current article and in the sources to justify a standalone article. It would be undue weight to merge all of this material about Koreans' history and culture in Palisades Park to Palisades Park, New Jersey.

  Cunard ( talk) 04:09, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• Yes, this is SYNTH. Basically, sources say that there is large Korean population in Palisades Park and some sources also say that Palisades Park (the entire town) is sometimes referred to as "Koreatown". These sources are being used misleadingly to reach the conclusion that there is a Koreatown area (neighborhood, business district, what have you) within Palisades Park. There is no such thing. As for you other proposal to create History of Koreans in Palisades Parks, that would be a WP:CONTENTFORK. Someone has already taken the liberty of merging all the relevant content into the Palisades Park article and a spinoff for a town of roughly 20,000 people hardly makes sense to begin with.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 05:40, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• To address the WP:SYNTH concern, Koreatown, Palisades Park could be renamed to History of Koreans in Palisades Parks or Koreans in Palisades Parks. The "Koreans in Palisades Parks" topic has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple books and multiple newspapers even despite the 20,000 population size. There is enough material for a WP:SPINOFF from Palisades Park, New Jersey. This means the topic is notable and significant. A spinoff complies with Wikipedia:Content forking#Article spinoffs: "Summary style" meta-articles and summary sections since the substantial discussion of Koreans in Palisades Parks would be undue weight if all moved from Koreatown, Palisades Park to Palisades Park, New Jersey. I consider the "Background", "Cuisine and culture", "Signage & dual-naming Broad Avenue", "Monuments and memorials", and "Korean language in civic affairs" sections to all be encyclopedic content that would be due weight in Koreatown, Palisades Park (or an article renamed to "Koreans in Palisades Parks") but would be undue weight in Palisades Park, New Jersey. This is why I oppose a merge. Cunard ( talk) 05:52, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• You're ignoring the fact that roughly 80%-90% of the content of this article is currently within the Palisades Park article. There is basically nothing left to merge. The spinoff article would just be redundant, it serves no purpose.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 06:04, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• My view is that it is better for the reader and more cohesive to have a single article discussing Koreans in Palisade Parks than to have the information spread across different sections in Palisades Park, New Jersey. Palisades Park, New Jersey should discuss Koreans in Palisades Park but should discuss the topic in summary style with most of the content being spun out to this article. Cunard ( talk) 07:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• Comment There is plenty of material to write an article about say, Koreans in Bergen County, New Jersey since the phenomenon is not specific to Palisades Park, but to the whole, notably contiguous urban area of abutting municipalities in the county and how it frequently discussed. (New Jersey's highly urbanized areas function regionally, and it's muncipal borders are blurred so they function 'neighborhoods' of each other). But this article, in and unto itself, in fact, passes GNG and verifiability with citations that DO support the fact that Broad Avenue is known as Koreatown. (Despite the nominator's refusal to acknowledge that and bludgeoning the process with repeated, unsubstantiated, personal claim (6 times now) about there not being a commercial area dubbed/called/named Koreatown within Palisades Park.) Djflem ( talk) 07:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• I agree that with sources saying:
  1. "Palisades Park, with its strip of shops and restaurants on Broad Avenue dubbed 'Koreatown,' is the heart of the community."
  2. "Broad Avenue is the fulcrum of something larger: a parallel universe that re-creates American traditions in Korean style. Koreans call it 'Koreatown.'"
  "Broad Avenue is known as Koreatown" is a correct statement. I think Koreatown, Palisades Park has a broader scope than Broad Avenue in discussing the "Koreans in Palisades Park" topic in general, which is why I suggested a rename to a broader-scoped title. Cunard ( talk) 07:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• Lean delete per WP:CONTENTFORK, for as of now the two articles mostly overlap. No objection to a separate article describing the phenomenon of Koreans in the area, per Cunard, though it would have to avoid simply repeating existing information, per Rusf10. Avilich ( talk) 13:35, 7 June 2021 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.