- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was draftify. Daniel ( talk) 00:20, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
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- Kkatamina ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The main source used on this page is through a website called Dexerto, which on many occasions has been deemed unreliable as per WP:VG/S and the current discussion, also seems to conclude that the source is unreliable. Further, the article does not demonstrate much notability for the subject, it only links one RS which is the one used to explain the subject's growth, the rest of links used are either situational ones or just contextual ones, e.g. YouTube & Twitter. As of right now I feel this article is unreliable and should not have been moved to the main space by the author, let me know your thoughts. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 05:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 05:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — MdsShakil ( talk) 08:43, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. — MdsShakil ( talk) 08:47, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for reviewing the page Delta fiver. I do think the achievement of breaking the world record for most Twitch subscribers ever as a female streamer is extremely notable and surpasses Wikipedia's notability standards. However, the article was written instantly after the record was achieved so there was not widespread media coverage yet. Let me search for and add more sources. While Dexerto does promote sensationalism sometimes, they are one of the few publications that regularly reports on gamers and streamers, and most importantly in this case they are reporting on a fact-based record breaking achievement and thus I think it is reliable for this article. Let me know your thoughts. Catyeo18 ( talk) 03:25, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have a couple of issues with the subject, mainly the lack of notability, I understand that there is impending notability through the ongoing achievement but as of now, it is my personal opinion that it should not be in the main space. Further, upon inspecting the sources on the page, I realized that the same Dexerto article was mentioned twice, which I will link once for better review in both parts mentioned. The page on RS conveys in the unreliable sub-section that, if they are mentioned, editors should try their best to replace them, which I don't think could happen in this case, due to there being no articles to do so. The page also states that it provides the current consensus regarding the reliability and usability of specific video game-related sources. so unfortunately, we can't really decide here on what level of reliability the sources provide, it has been determined on various occasions through discussions that, Dexerto mainly creates click bait articles and would thus, just be passing mentions on the Wikipedia. As of now, articles especially in the twitch streamer space, have had Dexerto articles wiped from their pages due to unreliability, see the revision history on Fedmyster. My final issue includes there being four YouTube links and one link to Twitter out of the total eight links, which as primary sources are unreliable, unless they are linked along with an article for context, which isn't the case right now. There have been many articles that have not passed the AFC if they mainly had YouTube and Twitter links as primary sources or as the higher amount of sources in the article. These are my main concerns, thank you. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 06:14, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your quick response Delta fiver. Is there a list of reputable gaming-related publications that Wikipedia deems approved? I have found more sources that I would like to add to the article to ensure YouTube/Twitter links are not the main sources. Catyeo18 ( talk) 06:55, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi no worries, there is a video game related page with the reliable sources here on the Wikipedia, you can find it here. When on the page, go to the Reliable sources subsection and you will find the names of the reliable sources mentioned in green, while the ones that are situational, are mentioned in yellow. Just wanted to highlight that so far, there is still not much coverage on the subject, regarding the main case for notability and that being the subathon, in my opinion. I understand that it is a great achievement within the space but I don't think it meets the guidelines as yet, atleast until more coverage has been reached to support it being seen as a great achievement. Further I would also like to convey that having a record in something does not always correlate to notability, as subjects like Edison Park, does not have a Wikipedia page for his world record, when he streamed the most hours out of all creators which did not only include males. Another similar example was Ludwig, he too held a record for his subathon, but the difference is he also had external coverage, that helped prove his notability in the community and to the Wikipedia, he was included by Business Insider, Business wire and the US Chess Federation for external aspects. Kindly keep these aspect in mind when making the edits or additions regarding the subject. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 07:47, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Delta fiver, I have added a lot more secondary sources to Kkatamina's Wikipedia page to show coverage of her and her record-breaking achievement. It includes a few international sources too to illustrate her notability and influence internationally. I have removed all Dexerto references as well. As a long-time writer of Wikipedia and especially the Wikipedia Women in Red project, I truly believe this is a well-supported, well-written article featuring a notable individual who isn't just notable, but an incredible trailblazer for many future women in the field of gaming and one who definitely deserves to be on Wikipedia. I really appreciate your help so far in giving me constant feedback and suggestions on how to improve this Wikipedia page, let me know your thoughts. Catyeo18 ( talk) 18:36, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Cat I noticed the edits, I commend the good effort put in to establish her notability and I understand how you feel regarding the subject. I truly appreciate your contributions towards adding more articles regarding the great achievements women have undertaken throughout. I surprisingly enough, actually wanted to write an article regarding XChocobars a while back, unfortunately, she wasn't notable enough back then but I noticed that you had written it and if I may add, you have done a great job with making the article. I went through some of the references mentioned and if I have to be completely honest, I'm a little unsure and still not convinced enough regarding the notability, as per the guideline I've been following for gaming related sources here on the Wikipedia. One of the references mentioned on two occasions was by Game Rant, which will have to be removed even though it falls under situational as the guideline requests that it be treated with caution and excluded from BLP pages, which the article falls under. The other referenced sites of Win.GG, Esportmaniacos (in Spanish) and Esports.net, mentioned have not been discussed as yet, what I feel is I can't establish notability and credibility of the articles here and thus, I'll get some more opinions by contacting those who have reviewed the credibility of the sites before, hope it is alright with you. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 20:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
- Draftify (delete). The relevant policy here is WP:BLP1E. The reliability of the sources is secondary to this point. It appears that this person is notable only because she is currently the most subscribed female Twitch streamer, a status which seems to be temporary(?) if other subathon-based records are any indication. The rest of the article is biographical details which do not establish notability. I am sensitive to Catyeo's efforts with Women in Red, which is why I suggest draftifying until further accomplishments indicate more lasting notability. Axem Titanium ( talk) 08:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
- Draftify per Axem Titanium's response. Good efforts so far. The article is headed in the right direction but yes we need other accomplishments. Troutfarm27 (Talk) 20:28, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was draftify. Daniel ( talk) 00:20, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Kkatamina ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The main source used on this page is through a website called Dexerto, which on many occasions has been deemed unreliable as per WP:VG/S and the current discussion, also seems to conclude that the source is unreliable. Further, the article does not demonstrate much notability for the subject, it only links one RS which is the one used to explain the subject's growth, the rest of links used are either situational ones or just contextual ones, e.g. YouTube & Twitter. As of right now I feel this article is unreliable and should not have been moved to the main space by the author, let me know your thoughts. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 05:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 05:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — MdsShakil ( talk) 08:43, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. — MdsShakil ( talk) 08:47, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for reviewing the page Delta fiver. I do think the achievement of breaking the world record for most Twitch subscribers ever as a female streamer is extremely notable and surpasses Wikipedia's notability standards. However, the article was written instantly after the record was achieved so there was not widespread media coverage yet. Let me search for and add more sources. While Dexerto does promote sensationalism sometimes, they are one of the few publications that regularly reports on gamers and streamers, and most importantly in this case they are reporting on a fact-based record breaking achievement and thus I think it is reliable for this article. Let me know your thoughts. Catyeo18 ( talk) 03:25, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have a couple of issues with the subject, mainly the lack of notability, I understand that there is impending notability through the ongoing achievement but as of now, it is my personal opinion that it should not be in the main space. Further, upon inspecting the sources on the page, I realized that the same Dexerto article was mentioned twice, which I will link once for better review in both parts mentioned. The page on RS conveys in the unreliable sub-section that, if they are mentioned, editors should try their best to replace them, which I don't think could happen in this case, due to there being no articles to do so. The page also states that it provides the current consensus regarding the reliability and usability of specific video game-related sources. so unfortunately, we can't really decide here on what level of reliability the sources provide, it has been determined on various occasions through discussions that, Dexerto mainly creates click bait articles and would thus, just be passing mentions on the Wikipedia. As of now, articles especially in the twitch streamer space, have had Dexerto articles wiped from their pages due to unreliability, see the revision history on Fedmyster. My final issue includes there being four YouTube links and one link to Twitter out of the total eight links, which as primary sources are unreliable, unless they are linked along with an article for context, which isn't the case right now. There have been many articles that have not passed the AFC if they mainly had YouTube and Twitter links as primary sources or as the higher amount of sources in the article. These are my main concerns, thank you. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 06:14, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your quick response Delta fiver. Is there a list of reputable gaming-related publications that Wikipedia deems approved? I have found more sources that I would like to add to the article to ensure YouTube/Twitter links are not the main sources. Catyeo18 ( talk) 06:55, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi no worries, there is a video game related page with the reliable sources here on the Wikipedia, you can find it here. When on the page, go to the Reliable sources subsection and you will find the names of the reliable sources mentioned in green, while the ones that are situational, are mentioned in yellow. Just wanted to highlight that so far, there is still not much coverage on the subject, regarding the main case for notability and that being the subathon, in my opinion. I understand that it is a great achievement within the space but I don't think it meets the guidelines as yet, atleast until more coverage has been reached to support it being seen as a great achievement. Further I would also like to convey that having a record in something does not always correlate to notability, as subjects like Edison Park, does not have a Wikipedia page for his world record, when he streamed the most hours out of all creators which did not only include males. Another similar example was Ludwig, he too held a record for his subathon, but the difference is he also had external coverage, that helped prove his notability in the community and to the Wikipedia, he was included by Business Insider, Business wire and the US Chess Federation for external aspects. Kindly keep these aspect in mind when making the edits or additions regarding the subject. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 07:47, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Delta fiver, I have added a lot more secondary sources to Kkatamina's Wikipedia page to show coverage of her and her record-breaking achievement. It includes a few international sources too to illustrate her notability and influence internationally. I have removed all Dexerto references as well. As a long-time writer of Wikipedia and especially the Wikipedia Women in Red project, I truly believe this is a well-supported, well-written article featuring a notable individual who isn't just notable, but an incredible trailblazer for many future women in the field of gaming and one who definitely deserves to be on Wikipedia. I really appreciate your help so far in giving me constant feedback and suggestions on how to improve this Wikipedia page, let me know your thoughts. Catyeo18 ( talk) 18:36, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Cat I noticed the edits, I commend the good effort put in to establish her notability and I understand how you feel regarding the subject. I truly appreciate your contributions towards adding more articles regarding the great achievements women have undertaken throughout. I surprisingly enough, actually wanted to write an article regarding XChocobars a while back, unfortunately, she wasn't notable enough back then but I noticed that you had written it and if I may add, you have done a great job with making the article. I went through some of the references mentioned and if I have to be completely honest, I'm a little unsure and still not convinced enough regarding the notability, as per the guideline I've been following for gaming related sources here on the Wikipedia. One of the references mentioned on two occasions was by Game Rant, which will have to be removed even though it falls under situational as the guideline requests that it be treated with caution and excluded from BLP pages, which the article falls under. The other referenced sites of Win.GG, Esportmaniacos (in Spanish) and Esports.net, mentioned have not been discussed as yet, what I feel is I can't establish notability and credibility of the articles here and thus, I'll get some more opinions by contacting those who have reviewed the credibility of the sites before, hope it is alright with you. Delta fiver ( talk) (UTC) 20:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
- Draftify (delete). The relevant policy here is WP:BLP1E. The reliability of the sources is secondary to this point. It appears that this person is notable only because she is currently the most subscribed female Twitch streamer, a status which seems to be temporary(?) if other subathon-based records are any indication. The rest of the article is biographical details which do not establish notability. I am sensitive to Catyeo's efforts with Women in Red, which is why I suggest draftifying until further accomplishments indicate more lasting notability. Axem Titanium ( talk) 08:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
- Draftify per Axem Titanium's response. Good efforts so far. The article is headed in the right direction but yes we need other accomplishments. Troutfarm27 (Talk) 20:28, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.