- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. His work might be notable but, as a person and artist, this individual is not yet notable by Wikipedia's standards of notability. It might be best to work on a Draft version of this article until he receives more focused attention on himself and not just on the songs he works on. Liz Read! Talk! 07:11, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
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- Jiroe ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails the notability criteria for people in addition to the notability criteria for musicians. A search for sources yielded no results, save for a Medium article here, which is, of course, listed at the list of perenially unreliable sources. Sean Stephens ( talk) 06:39, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:07, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Jiroe Meets
the notability criteria for people as stated here:
- The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series);
- He Produced and Mixed the record " Dry" by Rancid Eddie which charted number 2 on ARIA Charts ( here), Number 4 on New Zealand charts ( here). Such work was talked about on multiple sources such as EarMilk ( here), Billboard (" Hottest Release of the Week"), Michigan Daily ( Here). I can keep mentioning. The song Dry which he produced and mixed has over 13 million plays on Spotify ( [1], credits mentioning Jiroe on the same page (right click on the song and click on Credits, only way to see them).
- Jiroe does Meet
the notability criteria for musicians as stated here:
- Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself
- Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.
- Once again, He Produced and Mixed the record " Dry" by Rancid Eddie which charted number 2 on ARIA Charts ( here), Number 4 on New Zealand charts ( here). Such work was talked about on multiple sources such as EarMilk ( here), Billboard (" Hottest Release of the Week"), Michigan Daily ( Here). I can keep mentioning. The song Dry which he produced and mixed has over 13 million plays on Spotify ( [2], credits mentioning Jiroe on the same page (right click on the song and click on Credits, only way to see them).
- He also Produced and Mixed " Beautiful Life" by Cobra Starship, which has been covered by multiple reliable sources such as: Paper Magazine ( Here), Broadway World ( here).
- Also please, you have been for some strange reason, removing everything I do on Wikipedia. Please stop, find somebody else to bully. TubbyDubby ( talk) 10:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- If you read every single citation in the page I create you will realize Jiroe meets and surpasses the criteria for Record Producer. Stop bullying every one of my moves on Wikipedia @
Sean Stephens
TubbyDubby (
talk)
10:14, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- TubbyDubby, I'm not bullying you, I have valid and reasonable concerns about the content you've added or are adding to Wikipedia, the chief one being that this article doesn't match the aforementioned criteria.
Discogs and
IMDb, both used as sources in the article, are not
considered to be reliable sources. I will also note that
the notability criteria for people, which you yourself cite, states that such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews (which he hasn't) and that this work could be, for example, a book, film, or television series—this particular guideline does not refer to contributions to songs or albums. Due to this, he would be considered an example of
someone who's only notable for one event, as he hasn't achieved sustained coverage. No sources to indicate notability are given in the article, and, at this current point in time, no such sources appear likely to be found. I have raised issues with you previously, and you've failed to listen and/or engage with me. Please keep the discussion on the topic at hand.
Sean Stephens (
talk)
13:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Discogs and IMDb are used as source for credits, spotify can be used. They are not used as "media". The media citations are indirect citation, the producer's work (the songs) are being are being subject of multiple independent articles or reviews. His name is not mentioned directly, but the most recent work he has done (Dry and Beautiful Life) are indeed mentioned. Just because the name of the producer is not mentioned it does not mean the record producer is not notable. The songs exist in that form and arrangement because of the record producer and therefor every media article related to the song is a media article about the producer's work, wether or not the producer is mentioned there. TubbyDubby ( talk) 15:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- TubbyDubby, I'm not bullying you, I have valid and reasonable concerns about the content you've added or are adding to Wikipedia, the chief one being that this article doesn't match the aforementioned criteria.
Discogs and
IMDb, both used as sources in the article, are not
considered to be reliable sources. I will also note that
the notability criteria for people, which you yourself cite, states that such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews (which he hasn't) and that this work could be, for example, a book, film, or television series—this particular guideline does not refer to contributions to songs or albums. Due to this, he would be considered an example of
someone who's only notable for one event, as he hasn't achieved sustained coverage. No sources to indicate notability are given in the article, and, at this current point in time, no such sources appear likely to be found. I have raised issues with you previously, and you've failed to listen and/or engage with me. Please keep the discussion on the topic at hand.
Sean Stephens (
talk)
13:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: TubbyDubby, all those sources just prove that the songs are notable, not the producer. Not one of them mentions Jiroe by name. So he hasn't been the subject of multiple published works (the songs have), and he personally has not had a single on a national chart (the singer has). You would have to prove that as producer he played a major role in creating the songs, and the fact he isn't mentioned in any of the sources doesn't provide much evidence that he meets this criterion.
Richard3120 (
talk)
13:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yup, exactly this. Better sources are needed, especially for a
WP:BLP.
Sergecross73
msg me
14:05, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look at the category
American Record Producer, the vast majority of record producers have indirect references, which is valid. The
record producer is responsible for the song, if you are saying the songs are notable but the producer is not, then you are just not understanding what a record producer is and what its role is. I don't have time today but I'll add other citations to the page which mention that particular producer directly.
TubbyDubby (
talk)
15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I've been writing about modern music for the last decade. As has Richard, I believe. We know the role of a music producer, so please please don't cast aspersions on that matter. While you're at it, you may want to read up on WP:OSE and WP:NOTINHERITED, as those concepts counter much of the rest of what you're saying. Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look at the category
American Record Producer, the vast majority of record producers have indirect references, which is valid. The
record producer is responsible for the song, if you are saying the songs are notable but the producer is not, then you are just not understanding what a record producer is and what its role is. I don't have time today but I'll add other citations to the page which mention that particular producer directly.
TubbyDubby (
talk)
15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yup, exactly this. Better sources are needed, especially for a
WP:BLP.
Sergecross73
msg me
14:05, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination (unless TubbyDubby has a list of sources they can present here that they'd be adding later that would clear up the lack of subject-specific coverage, though that sounds unlikely based on the direction of the above conversation) QuietHere ( talk) 23:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - per nom and my discussion points above. I could find any significant coverage sourcing for this BLP. Sergecross73 msg me 00:57, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. His work might be notable but, as a person and artist, this individual is not yet notable by Wikipedia's standards of notability. It might be best to work on a Draft version of this article until he receives more focused attention on himself and not just on the songs he works on. Liz Read! Talk! 07:11, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Jiroe ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails the notability criteria for people in addition to the notability criteria for musicians. A search for sources yielded no results, save for a Medium article here, which is, of course, listed at the list of perenially unreliable sources. Sean Stephens ( talk) 06:39, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:07, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Jiroe Meets
the notability criteria for people as stated here:
- The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series);
- He Produced and Mixed the record " Dry" by Rancid Eddie which charted number 2 on ARIA Charts ( here), Number 4 on New Zealand charts ( here). Such work was talked about on multiple sources such as EarMilk ( here), Billboard (" Hottest Release of the Week"), Michigan Daily ( Here). I can keep mentioning. The song Dry which he produced and mixed has over 13 million plays on Spotify ( [1], credits mentioning Jiroe on the same page (right click on the song and click on Credits, only way to see them).
- Jiroe does Meet
the notability criteria for musicians as stated here:
- Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself
- Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.
- Once again, He Produced and Mixed the record " Dry" by Rancid Eddie which charted number 2 on ARIA Charts ( here), Number 4 on New Zealand charts ( here). Such work was talked about on multiple sources such as EarMilk ( here), Billboard (" Hottest Release of the Week"), Michigan Daily ( Here). I can keep mentioning. The song Dry which he produced and mixed has over 13 million plays on Spotify ( [2], credits mentioning Jiroe on the same page (right click on the song and click on Credits, only way to see them).
- He also Produced and Mixed " Beautiful Life" by Cobra Starship, which has been covered by multiple reliable sources such as: Paper Magazine ( Here), Broadway World ( here).
- Also please, you have been for some strange reason, removing everything I do on Wikipedia. Please stop, find somebody else to bully. TubbyDubby ( talk) 10:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- If you read every single citation in the page I create you will realize Jiroe meets and surpasses the criteria for Record Producer. Stop bullying every one of my moves on Wikipedia @
Sean Stephens
TubbyDubby (
talk)
10:14, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- TubbyDubby, I'm not bullying you, I have valid and reasonable concerns about the content you've added or are adding to Wikipedia, the chief one being that this article doesn't match the aforementioned criteria.
Discogs and
IMDb, both used as sources in the article, are not
considered to be reliable sources. I will also note that
the notability criteria for people, which you yourself cite, states that such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews (which he hasn't) and that this work could be, for example, a book, film, or television series—this particular guideline does not refer to contributions to songs or albums. Due to this, he would be considered an example of
someone who's only notable for one event, as he hasn't achieved sustained coverage. No sources to indicate notability are given in the article, and, at this current point in time, no such sources appear likely to be found. I have raised issues with you previously, and you've failed to listen and/or engage with me. Please keep the discussion on the topic at hand.
Sean Stephens (
talk)
13:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Discogs and IMDb are used as source for credits, spotify can be used. They are not used as "media". The media citations are indirect citation, the producer's work (the songs) are being are being subject of multiple independent articles or reviews. His name is not mentioned directly, but the most recent work he has done (Dry and Beautiful Life) are indeed mentioned. Just because the name of the producer is not mentioned it does not mean the record producer is not notable. The songs exist in that form and arrangement because of the record producer and therefor every media article related to the song is a media article about the producer's work, wether or not the producer is mentioned there. TubbyDubby ( talk) 15:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- TubbyDubby, I'm not bullying you, I have valid and reasonable concerns about the content you've added or are adding to Wikipedia, the chief one being that this article doesn't match the aforementioned criteria.
Discogs and
IMDb, both used as sources in the article, are not
considered to be reliable sources. I will also note that
the notability criteria for people, which you yourself cite, states that such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews (which he hasn't) and that this work could be, for example, a book, film, or television series—this particular guideline does not refer to contributions to songs or albums. Due to this, he would be considered an example of
someone who's only notable for one event, as he hasn't achieved sustained coverage. No sources to indicate notability are given in the article, and, at this current point in time, no such sources appear likely to be found. I have raised issues with you previously, and you've failed to listen and/or engage with me. Please keep the discussion on the topic at hand.
Sean Stephens (
talk)
13:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: TubbyDubby, all those sources just prove that the songs are notable, not the producer. Not one of them mentions Jiroe by name. So he hasn't been the subject of multiple published works (the songs have), and he personally has not had a single on a national chart (the singer has). You would have to prove that as producer he played a major role in creating the songs, and the fact he isn't mentioned in any of the sources doesn't provide much evidence that he meets this criterion.
Richard3120 (
talk)
13:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yup, exactly this. Better sources are needed, especially for a
WP:BLP.
Sergecross73
msg me
14:05, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look at the category
American Record Producer, the vast majority of record producers have indirect references, which is valid. The
record producer is responsible for the song, if you are saying the songs are notable but the producer is not, then you are just not understanding what a record producer is and what its role is. I don't have time today but I'll add other citations to the page which mention that particular producer directly.
TubbyDubby (
talk)
15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I've been writing about modern music for the last decade. As has Richard, I believe. We know the role of a music producer, so please please don't cast aspersions on that matter. While you're at it, you may want to read up on WP:OSE and WP:NOTINHERITED, as those concepts counter much of the rest of what you're saying. Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look at the category
American Record Producer, the vast majority of record producers have indirect references, which is valid. The
record producer is responsible for the song, if you are saying the songs are notable but the producer is not, then you are just not understanding what a record producer is and what its role is. I don't have time today but I'll add other citations to the page which mention that particular producer directly.
TubbyDubby (
talk)
15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yup, exactly this. Better sources are needed, especially for a
WP:BLP.
Sergecross73
msg me
14:05, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination (unless TubbyDubby has a list of sources they can present here that they'd be adding later that would clear up the lack of subject-specific coverage, though that sounds unlikely based on the direction of the above conversation) QuietHere ( talk) 23:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - per nom and my discussion points above. I could find any significant coverage sourcing for this BLP. Sergecross73 msg me 00:57, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.