- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was resolved. The disambiguation has been reformatted into a list. -- Tavix ( talk) 17:21, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
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- Japanese apple ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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These are examples of apples that have originated in Japan, not apples that are known as "Japanese apple". None of the articles show "Japanese apple" as valid alternative names, so all entries fail WP:DABMENTION as well. For example, Akane has a few synonyms per [1], including Prime Red, Primerouge, Tohoku, Tohoku No.3, Tokyo Rose. Searching that site for "Japanese" or Japanese apple" gives no results. -- Tavix ( talk) 14:34, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. -- Tavix ( talk) 14:34, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. 94rain Talk 14:50, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - I agree now that I see it that this doesn't quite work as a disambiguation page, but it could be rewritten as a set index article; see, for example, Asian pear or Chinese orange. I was hoping to find one that was better developed than this but there are 1,559 pages in Category:Set indices on plant common names and I'm not going to spend all day going through them. There's some evidence that "Japanese apples" are a sort of common unofficial name or categorization for several varieties of apple, for example [2] [3] [4] [5] (I am aware that some of these are not reliable sources and they're not meant to be, they're just demonstrating common usage. If your reply to this is all about source reliability, keep it to yourself.) Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 15:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't work as a set index either. Per the guideline (my emphasis added)
A set index article (SIA) is a list article about a set of items of a specific type that also share the same (or similar) name
. If nothing is named "Japanese apple", you can't have an index saying otherwise either. As an example to your counterexample, Pyrus pyrifolia has a source showing "Asian pear" to be an alternative name for that pear, so that is okay. The sourcing that you provided seems to indicate that an actual article on apples from Japan would be desirable, and it would be nice to reserve the title for something of that sort. -- Tavix ( talk) 15:14, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't work as a set index either. Per the guideline (my emphasis added)
- Keep. My first AFD for something I've made; exciting! This was written as a response to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 May 7#Apple (Japan). I will hammer this out when I get home based on the above feedback. ( edit conflict) – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Keep – probably should be expanded into an article about Japanese apples. It could also be a list of Japanese apples. "Dab" and "set index" are beyond my level of competence, but I did a quick search and found lots of sources referring to these apples as Japanese apples (though, like Ivan's list, not all of these are RSes, but that's not the point): [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] Leviv ich 15:45, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Any apple from Japan can be called "Japanese apple" as a descriptor of what the apple is, but that is separate from an apple having the name "Japanese apple" (which is what dabs and SIAs cover). I agree with you that the way to cover this group of apple cultivars would be with an article of the sort. A
stand-alone list should have more than three entries, but I'm sure a list of "Japanese apples" can be included in such an article. --
Tavix (
talk)
15:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
Tavix: I just made the page into
this before rolling back my edits. Would a
list of Japanese apple cultivars be a more acceptable scope? –
MJL
‐Talk‐
☖
17:04, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
MJL: I would be fine with that. Thanks for the work you put into it. --
Tavix (
talk)
17:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @ Tavix: Okay, I moved the page to List of Japanese apple cultivars and applied the appropriate rcats to Japanese apple (ie. Page move, From a list topic, {{ R with possibilities}}, etc.). Also it didn't take much to make this list once I found the other entries which was really thanks to this AFD – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 17:18, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
MJL: I would be fine with that. Thanks for the work you put into it. --
Tavix (
talk)
17:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
Tavix: I just made the page into
this before rolling back my edits. Would a
list of Japanese apple cultivars be a more acceptable scope? –
MJL
‐Talk‐
☖
17:04, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Any apple from Japan can be called "Japanese apple" as a descriptor of what the apple is, but that is separate from an apple having the name "Japanese apple" (which is what dabs and SIAs cover). I agree with you that the way to cover this group of apple cultivars would be with an article of the sort. A
stand-alone list should have more than three entries, but I'm sure a list of "Japanese apples" can be included in such an article. --
Tavix (
talk)
15:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was resolved. The disambiguation has been reformatted into a list. -- Tavix ( talk) 17:21, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Japanese apple ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
These are examples of apples that have originated in Japan, not apples that are known as "Japanese apple". None of the articles show "Japanese apple" as valid alternative names, so all entries fail WP:DABMENTION as well. For example, Akane has a few synonyms per [1], including Prime Red, Primerouge, Tohoku, Tohoku No.3, Tokyo Rose. Searching that site for "Japanese" or Japanese apple" gives no results. -- Tavix ( talk) 14:34, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. -- Tavix ( talk) 14:34, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. 94rain Talk 14:50, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - I agree now that I see it that this doesn't quite work as a disambiguation page, but it could be rewritten as a set index article; see, for example, Asian pear or Chinese orange. I was hoping to find one that was better developed than this but there are 1,559 pages in Category:Set indices on plant common names and I'm not going to spend all day going through them. There's some evidence that "Japanese apples" are a sort of common unofficial name or categorization for several varieties of apple, for example [2] [3] [4] [5] (I am aware that some of these are not reliable sources and they're not meant to be, they're just demonstrating common usage. If your reply to this is all about source reliability, keep it to yourself.) Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 15:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't work as a set index either. Per the guideline (my emphasis added)
A set index article (SIA) is a list article about a set of items of a specific type that also share the same (or similar) name
. If nothing is named "Japanese apple", you can't have an index saying otherwise either. As an example to your counterexample, Pyrus pyrifolia has a source showing "Asian pear" to be an alternative name for that pear, so that is okay. The sourcing that you provided seems to indicate that an actual article on apples from Japan would be desirable, and it would be nice to reserve the title for something of that sort. -- Tavix ( talk) 15:14, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't work as a set index either. Per the guideline (my emphasis added)
- Keep. My first AFD for something I've made; exciting! This was written as a response to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 May 7#Apple (Japan). I will hammer this out when I get home based on the above feedback. ( edit conflict) – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Keep – probably should be expanded into an article about Japanese apples. It could also be a list of Japanese apples. "Dab" and "set index" are beyond my level of competence, but I did a quick search and found lots of sources referring to these apples as Japanese apples (though, like Ivan's list, not all of these are RSes, but that's not the point): [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] Leviv ich 15:45, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Any apple from Japan can be called "Japanese apple" as a descriptor of what the apple is, but that is separate from an apple having the name "Japanese apple" (which is what dabs and SIAs cover). I agree with you that the way to cover this group of apple cultivars would be with an article of the sort. A
stand-alone list should have more than three entries, but I'm sure a list of "Japanese apples" can be included in such an article. --
Tavix (
talk)
15:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
Tavix: I just made the page into
this before rolling back my edits. Would a
list of Japanese apple cultivars be a more acceptable scope? –
MJL
‐Talk‐
☖
17:04, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
MJL: I would be fine with that. Thanks for the work you put into it. --
Tavix (
talk)
17:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @ Tavix: Okay, I moved the page to List of Japanese apple cultivars and applied the appropriate rcats to Japanese apple (ie. Page move, From a list topic, {{ R with possibilities}}, etc.). Also it didn't take much to make this list once I found the other entries which was really thanks to this AFD – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 17:18, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
MJL: I would be fine with that. Thanks for the work you put into it. --
Tavix (
talk)
17:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- @
Tavix: I just made the page into
this before rolling back my edits. Would a
list of Japanese apple cultivars be a more acceptable scope? –
MJL
‐Talk‐
☖
17:04, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Any apple from Japan can be called "Japanese apple" as a descriptor of what the apple is, but that is separate from an apple having the name "Japanese apple" (which is what dabs and SIAs cover). I agree with you that the way to cover this group of apple cultivars would be with an article of the sort. A
stand-alone list should have more than three entries, but I'm sure a list of "Japanese apples" can be included in such an article. --
Tavix (
talk)
15:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.