- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. ‑Scottywong | [confess] || 07:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Jake Burns ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Poorly sourced, non-notable BLP. I tried redirecting it to the band per WP:ATD, but was reverted. I believe that the band passes WP:NMUSIC but this member does not, and therefore propose that this title redirect to Stiff Little Fingers. – bradv 🍁 13:49, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 14:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 14:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - saying Jake Burns is not independently notable from Stiff Little Fingers is like saying Marc Bolan is not independently notable from T-Rex. Burns is regularly interviewed by notable magazines and newspapers worldwide, like the Irish News (Ireland) [1] [2, Newcity (USA) [3, The Japan Times (Japan) [4, Belfast Telegraph (Northern Ireland) [5, Vice (Canada) [6, Stuff (New Zealand) [7, Morning Star (UK) [8 and Sportskeeda (UK sports mag) [9. That list is just from the first 2 pages of a Google search, I could easily post a bunch more but I think the point is made. Suffice to say, if we've now set the bar so high that even Jake Burns is not considered notable, there are a TON of other pages that will now need to also be deleted. Robman94 ( talk) 16:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Every single one of those links describe him as "Jake Burns of Stiff Little Fingers" and are primary source interviews with him talking about his involvement in Stiff Little Fingers. Kind of undercuts your assertion that he is independently notable of Stiff Little Fingers. Richard3120 ( talk) 19:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Delete - This information in this article about Jake Burns is advertisement like and not particularly factual. Stiff Little Fingers page is relevant however this page is not. I propose it is deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkfan48828 ( talk • contribs) — Punkfan48828 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Could I ask that an admin check if
Punkfan48828 is a sock puppet for
Broonie5460 and
Wikiuser2020belfast.
Robman94 (
talk)
16:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- I have left a note at the relevant page. AleatoryPonderings ( talk) 16:53, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Could I ask that an admin check if
Punkfan48828 is a sock puppet for
Broonie5460 and
Wikiuser2020belfast.
Robman94 (
talk)
16:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep Jake Burn's is a National Treasure in Northern Island. His reputation as a humanitarian is unchallenged. Say nothing of his successful solo career outside of Stiff Little Fingers. A simple glance at his Discogs profile will support he has over a dozen solo recordings with his side bands; 3 Men + Black, Dead Men Walking, and Jake Burns And The Big Wheel.
User:Bradv you are out of your field of depth.--
Jauma2368 (
talk)
17:40, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- May I suggest that, rather than insulting me, you improve the article to address the issues I mentioned? That would be time well spent. – bradv 🍁 18:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to Stiff Little Fingers, quite obviously, and salt the redirect if necessary. That Stiff Little Fingers are themselves notable is beyond doubt, being one of the very first UK punk bands, widely discussed in books and magazine articles documenting the era, and with a string of hit singles and albums in the UK [1]. Jake Burns is well known as SLF's frontman, and his name is a valid search term, but Burns has no notability outside of the band – none of his other musical ventures are notable, and as Robman94 inadvertently proved above, all discussion of Burns in reliable sources is in the context of playing with SLF. I mean, his own Twitter account is "JakeBurnsSLF"... Richard3120 ( talk) 19:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. SLF is very obviously a notable band, and there's plenty of sources that cover Burns' life and work outside the band, e.g. [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11]. -- Michig ( talk) 09:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing it, to be honest – OK, the AllMusic review is about his other band, albeit without a rating. But the Rock Bible is entirely about SLF, despite mentioning Burns' other band in the title and then never mentioning them again, the Dead Men Walking is basically Burns playing acoustic versions of SLF songs and one solo single, and all the other sources are primary source interviews with Burns, mainly talking about his memories of forming and playing with SLF. There's a few lines about him marrying and moving to Chicago, and his activism work, but I honestly don't see enough notable information outside the band to warrant a separate article, I think this could easily be included in a few lines in the SLF article.
Richard3120 (
talk)
21:19, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- If someone is famous, albeit famous for being in one band, doesn't the fact that they're famous mean that they're also notable? You'll notice that it's almost always Jake Burns from SLF that gets interviewed, not the other guys. If being famous doesn't count when you've only been in one notable band, how is someone like Marc Bolan notable? Now, I'm not for one minute suggesting that you go and put Marc up for an AFD, and I'm using him as an extreme example, but he only ever had one band, T-Rex. I could give a long list of other guys that are also famous for being in one band, but I won't out of fear that someone would indeed put them all up for AFD and it would be too much work to defend so many articles all at once. Robman94 ( talk) 22:53, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing it, to be honest – OK, the AllMusic review is about his other band, albeit without a rating. But the Rock Bible is entirely about SLF, despite mentioning Burns' other band in the title and then never mentioning them again, the Dead Men Walking is basically Burns playing acoustic versions of SLF songs and one solo single, and all the other sources are primary source interviews with Burns, mainly talking about his memories of forming and playing with SLF. There's a few lines about him marrying and moving to Chicago, and his activism work, but I honestly don't see enough notable information outside the band to warrant a separate article, I think this could easily be included in a few lines in the SLF article.
Richard3120 (
talk)
21:19, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete or maybe redirect to SLF: about 30% of the article is about SLF and the sources for Burns own biography are mostly mentions of participation but nothing really significant about him. BTW, where is the verification he is "National Treasure in Northern Island"?. ww2censor ( talk) 09:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - WP:Music says that musicians may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria. Jake meets 5 criteria:
- 1. Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works - see links above
- 2. Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart - his singles "She Grew Up" and "Breathless" both charted in the UK
- 5. Has released two or more albums on a major record label - 1. On Fortune Street (2002, EMI), 2. Drinkin' Again (2006, EMI)
- 6. Is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles - 1. Stiff Little Fingers, 2. Jake Burns and the Big Wheel, 3. Dead Men Walking
- 7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style - he is a prominent figure in punk rock music. Robman94 ( talk) 23:19, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. ‑Scottywong | [confess] || 07:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Jake Burns ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Poorly sourced, non-notable BLP. I tried redirecting it to the band per WP:ATD, but was reverted. I believe that the band passes WP:NMUSIC but this member does not, and therefore propose that this title redirect to Stiff Little Fingers. – bradv 🍁 13:49, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 14:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 14:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - saying Jake Burns is not independently notable from Stiff Little Fingers is like saying Marc Bolan is not independently notable from T-Rex. Burns is regularly interviewed by notable magazines and newspapers worldwide, like the Irish News (Ireland) [1] [2, Newcity (USA) [3, The Japan Times (Japan) [4, Belfast Telegraph (Northern Ireland) [5, Vice (Canada) [6, Stuff (New Zealand) [7, Morning Star (UK) [8 and Sportskeeda (UK sports mag) [9. That list is just from the first 2 pages of a Google search, I could easily post a bunch more but I think the point is made. Suffice to say, if we've now set the bar so high that even Jake Burns is not considered notable, there are a TON of other pages that will now need to also be deleted. Robman94 ( talk) 16:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Every single one of those links describe him as "Jake Burns of Stiff Little Fingers" and are primary source interviews with him talking about his involvement in Stiff Little Fingers. Kind of undercuts your assertion that he is independently notable of Stiff Little Fingers. Richard3120 ( talk) 19:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Delete - This information in this article about Jake Burns is advertisement like and not particularly factual. Stiff Little Fingers page is relevant however this page is not. I propose it is deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkfan48828 ( talk • contribs) — Punkfan48828 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Could I ask that an admin check if
Punkfan48828 is a sock puppet for
Broonie5460 and
Wikiuser2020belfast.
Robman94 (
talk)
16:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- I have left a note at the relevant page. AleatoryPonderings ( talk) 16:53, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Could I ask that an admin check if
Punkfan48828 is a sock puppet for
Broonie5460 and
Wikiuser2020belfast.
Robman94 (
talk)
16:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep Jake Burn's is a National Treasure in Northern Island. His reputation as a humanitarian is unchallenged. Say nothing of his successful solo career outside of Stiff Little Fingers. A simple glance at his Discogs profile will support he has over a dozen solo recordings with his side bands; 3 Men + Black, Dead Men Walking, and Jake Burns And The Big Wheel.
User:Bradv you are out of your field of depth.--
Jauma2368 (
talk)
17:40, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- May I suggest that, rather than insulting me, you improve the article to address the issues I mentioned? That would be time well spent. – bradv 🍁 18:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to Stiff Little Fingers, quite obviously, and salt the redirect if necessary. That Stiff Little Fingers are themselves notable is beyond doubt, being one of the very first UK punk bands, widely discussed in books and magazine articles documenting the era, and with a string of hit singles and albums in the UK [1]. Jake Burns is well known as SLF's frontman, and his name is a valid search term, but Burns has no notability outside of the band – none of his other musical ventures are notable, and as Robman94 inadvertently proved above, all discussion of Burns in reliable sources is in the context of playing with SLF. I mean, his own Twitter account is "JakeBurnsSLF"... Richard3120 ( talk) 19:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. SLF is very obviously a notable band, and there's plenty of sources that cover Burns' life and work outside the band, e.g. [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11]. -- Michig ( talk) 09:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing it, to be honest – OK, the AllMusic review is about his other band, albeit without a rating. But the Rock Bible is entirely about SLF, despite mentioning Burns' other band in the title and then never mentioning them again, the Dead Men Walking is basically Burns playing acoustic versions of SLF songs and one solo single, and all the other sources are primary source interviews with Burns, mainly talking about his memories of forming and playing with SLF. There's a few lines about him marrying and moving to Chicago, and his activism work, but I honestly don't see enough notable information outside the band to warrant a separate article, I think this could easily be included in a few lines in the SLF article.
Richard3120 (
talk)
21:19, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- If someone is famous, albeit famous for being in one band, doesn't the fact that they're famous mean that they're also notable? You'll notice that it's almost always Jake Burns from SLF that gets interviewed, not the other guys. If being famous doesn't count when you've only been in one notable band, how is someone like Marc Bolan notable? Now, I'm not for one minute suggesting that you go and put Marc up for an AFD, and I'm using him as an extreme example, but he only ever had one band, T-Rex. I could give a long list of other guys that are also famous for being in one band, but I won't out of fear that someone would indeed put them all up for AFD and it would be too much work to defend so many articles all at once. Robman94 ( talk) 22:53, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing it, to be honest – OK, the AllMusic review is about his other band, albeit without a rating. But the Rock Bible is entirely about SLF, despite mentioning Burns' other band in the title and then never mentioning them again, the Dead Men Walking is basically Burns playing acoustic versions of SLF songs and one solo single, and all the other sources are primary source interviews with Burns, mainly talking about his memories of forming and playing with SLF. There's a few lines about him marrying and moving to Chicago, and his activism work, but I honestly don't see enough notable information outside the band to warrant a separate article, I think this could easily be included in a few lines in the SLF article.
Richard3120 (
talk)
21:19, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete or maybe redirect to SLF: about 30% of the article is about SLF and the sources for Burns own biography are mostly mentions of participation but nothing really significant about him. BTW, where is the verification he is "National Treasure in Northern Island"?. ww2censor ( talk) 09:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - WP:Music says that musicians may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria. Jake meets 5 criteria:
- 1. Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works - see links above
- 2. Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart - his singles "She Grew Up" and "Breathless" both charted in the UK
- 5. Has released two or more albums on a major record label - 1. On Fortune Street (2002, EMI), 2. Drinkin' Again (2006, EMI)
- 6. Is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles - 1. Stiff Little Fingers, 2. Jake Burns and the Big Wheel, 3. Dead Men Walking
- 7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style - he is a prominent figure in punk rock music. Robman94 ( talk) 23:19, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.