- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The source discussions support the delete arguments. Some of the keep arguments are assertive and carry little weight. Spartaz Humbug! 18:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Jaelin Williams
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- Jaelin Williams ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Two appearances for the Bahamas national football team. Unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage from third-party sources, failing WP:GNG. JTtheOG ( talk) 05:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Bahamas, and Georgia (U.S. state). JTtheOG ( talk) 05:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete included source is not independent, only other thing I can find is another not independent piece from the same local outlet
[1] —
siro
χ
o
06:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- That source is independent, it's not affiliated to the University but instead to a region. See their about page
here.@
Siroxo:--
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. For this particular article, of about 22 paragraphs, 8 paragraphs are mostly direct quotes from the subject or family, and at least 5 more have words attributed to one of them. While such interviews doesn't automatically rule out an article, this one seems heavily dependent on the interviews, and thus not intellectually independent. It's not a dig at the paper, author or subject. It's just that the bulk of the content comes from the mouth of the subject and family, so we can't treat it as independent. — siro χ o 20:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- That source is independent, it's not affiliated to the University but instead to a region. See their about page
here.@
Siroxo:--
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:47, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, 2 independent sources that pass GNG.-- Ortizesp ( talk) 12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me.
Giant
Snowman
19:51, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Here's 3, they're both independent and notable: here, here, and here. @ GiantSnowman:-- Ortizesp ( talk) 19:55, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. There is no evidence of sustained significant coverage across multiple IRS sources. The two sources from The Brunswick News are not independent of each other, and the georgiasoccer.com source is not independent of Williams and not intellectually independent of the first TBN article, which it plagiarizes. The TBN articles are routine interview-heavy "local kid spotlighted" small-town stories.
JoelleJay (
talk)
03:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- This is patently false, the two Brunswick News Stories are independent and have nothing to do with each other, covering different facets of the athletes life. The Georgia Soccer article is independents of Jaelin (show me where he has played for a Georgia Soccer team), and is similar but not plagarism of the Brunswick News article.
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- The two TBN articles are literally written by the same person. They do not count as separate sources. Jaelin played club soccer in Georgia, according to the first sentence of that source:
Jaelin Williams, who played club soccer for Coastal Outreach Soccer and Brunswick High School 2016 graduate
. COS is a youth member affiliate. And yes it's plagiarized: - GS:
Jaelin Williams, who played club soccer for Coastal Outreach Soccer and Brunswick High School 2016 graduate, has been named to the Bahamas men’s national soccer team for the inaugural tournament of the Concacaf Nations League, which encompasses 41 nations and protectorates in North America, Central America and the Caribbean.
- TBN:
Williams, a 2016 Brunswick High School graduate, has been named to the Bahamas men’s national soccer team for the inaugural tournament of the Concacaf Nations League, which encompasses 41 nations and protectorates in North America, Central America and the Caribbean.
- Plus, as a clear derivative of the TBN source, it is not intellectually independent either. JoelleJay ( talk) 17:20, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- The two TBN articles are literally written by the same person. They do not count as separate sources. Jaelin played club soccer in Georgia, according to the first sentence of that source:
- This is patently false, the two Brunswick News Stories are independent and have nothing to do with each other, covering different facets of the athletes life. The Georgia Soccer article is independents of Jaelin (show me where he has played for a Georgia Soccer team), and is similar but not plagarism of the Brunswick News article.
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I added another article about him, so he now has four articles which are solely dedicated to him from independent sources. For people claiming the Georgia Soccer link is non-independent, please show us how so we all can see.
KatoKungLee (
talk)
13:40, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- The majority of that article is repeating what Williams said or felt or otherwise sharing his perspective (primary, not independent), with what remains being essentially the same info we have from the other sources. That gives us three local articles talking about his call-up to the Bahamas team, and another local source providing routine local-interest coverage of COS (the author has written dozens of pieces discussing minor events hosted by the org). These are utterly mundane small-town news stories. JoelleJay ( talk) 17:33, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:34, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- Weak delete This is marginal, but I don't think the sourcing is quite there to support an article - there are a couple decent feature articles, but they're "local athlete does interesting thing," not the type of article you would expect to see about an international football player. I think you could make a keep argument as well, though, but considering there's nothing else on the rest of his career besides "local college player plays international game," which I don't think is quite enough for GNG, I don't support keeping this. SportingFlyer T· C 13:28, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Per Ortsizep and KatoKungLee. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 22:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per JoelleJay; the coverage is not in-depth (mostly quote-heavy and questionably independent/reliable sources) and doesn't satisfy WP:GNG. Jogurney ( talk) 17:01, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The source discussions support the delete arguments. Some of the keep arguments are assertive and carry little weight. Spartaz Humbug! 18:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Jaelin Williams
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Jaelin Williams ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Two appearances for the Bahamas national football team. Unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage from third-party sources, failing WP:GNG. JTtheOG ( talk) 05:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Bahamas, and Georgia (U.S. state). JTtheOG ( talk) 05:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete included source is not independent, only other thing I can find is another not independent piece from the same local outlet
[1] —
siro
χ
o
06:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- That source is independent, it's not affiliated to the University but instead to a region. See their about page
here.@
Siroxo:--
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. For this particular article, of about 22 paragraphs, 8 paragraphs are mostly direct quotes from the subject or family, and at least 5 more have words attributed to one of them. While such interviews doesn't automatically rule out an article, this one seems heavily dependent on the interviews, and thus not intellectually independent. It's not a dig at the paper, author or subject. It's just that the bulk of the content comes from the mouth of the subject and family, so we can't treat it as independent. — siro χ o 20:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- That source is independent, it's not affiliated to the University but instead to a region. See their about page
here.@
Siroxo:--
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:47, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, 2 independent sources that pass GNG.-- Ortizesp ( talk) 12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me.
Giant
Snowman
19:51, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Here's 3, they're both independent and notable: here, here, and here. @ GiantSnowman:-- Ortizesp ( talk) 19:55, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. There is no evidence of sustained significant coverage across multiple IRS sources. The two sources from The Brunswick News are not independent of each other, and the georgiasoccer.com source is not independent of Williams and not intellectually independent of the first TBN article, which it plagiarizes. The TBN articles are routine interview-heavy "local kid spotlighted" small-town stories.
JoelleJay (
talk)
03:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- This is patently false, the two Brunswick News Stories are independent and have nothing to do with each other, covering different facets of the athletes life. The Georgia Soccer article is independents of Jaelin (show me where he has played for a Georgia Soccer team), and is similar but not plagarism of the Brunswick News article.
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- The two TBN articles are literally written by the same person. They do not count as separate sources. Jaelin played club soccer in Georgia, according to the first sentence of that source:
Jaelin Williams, who played club soccer for Coastal Outreach Soccer and Brunswick High School 2016 graduate
. COS is a youth member affiliate. And yes it's plagiarized: - GS:
Jaelin Williams, who played club soccer for Coastal Outreach Soccer and Brunswick High School 2016 graduate, has been named to the Bahamas men’s national soccer team for the inaugural tournament of the Concacaf Nations League, which encompasses 41 nations and protectorates in North America, Central America and the Caribbean.
- TBN:
Williams, a 2016 Brunswick High School graduate, has been named to the Bahamas men’s national soccer team for the inaugural tournament of the Concacaf Nations League, which encompasses 41 nations and protectorates in North America, Central America and the Caribbean.
- Plus, as a clear derivative of the TBN source, it is not intellectually independent either. JoelleJay ( talk) 17:20, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- The two TBN articles are literally written by the same person. They do not count as separate sources. Jaelin played club soccer in Georgia, according to the first sentence of that source:
- This is patently false, the two Brunswick News Stories are independent and have nothing to do with each other, covering different facets of the athletes life. The Georgia Soccer article is independents of Jaelin (show me where he has played for a Georgia Soccer team), and is similar but not plagarism of the Brunswick News article.
Ortizesp (
talk)
12:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I added another article about him, so he now has four articles which are solely dedicated to him from independent sources. For people claiming the Georgia Soccer link is non-independent, please show us how so we all can see.
KatoKungLee (
talk)
13:40, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- The majority of that article is repeating what Williams said or felt or otherwise sharing his perspective (primary, not independent), with what remains being essentially the same info we have from the other sources. That gives us three local articles talking about his call-up to the Bahamas team, and another local source providing routine local-interest coverage of COS (the author has written dozens of pieces discussing minor events hosted by the org). These are utterly mundane small-town news stories. JoelleJay ( talk) 17:33, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:34, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- Weak delete This is marginal, but I don't think the sourcing is quite there to support an article - there are a couple decent feature articles, but they're "local athlete does interesting thing," not the type of article you would expect to see about an international football player. I think you could make a keep argument as well, though, but considering there's nothing else on the rest of his career besides "local college player plays international game," which I don't think is quite enough for GNG, I don't support keeping this. SportingFlyer T· C 13:28, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Per Ortsizep and KatoKungLee. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 22:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per JoelleJay; the coverage is not in-depth (mostly quote-heavy and questionably independent/reliable sources) and doesn't satisfy WP:GNG. Jogurney ( talk) 17:01, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.