The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 19:50, 27 March 2021 (UTC) reply

J.D. Mata (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)

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Non-notable musician / actor. Could not find any reliable sources about him. Natg 19 ( talk) 03:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Natg 19 ( talk) 03:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Natg 19 ( talk) 03:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Natg 19 ( talk) 03:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Delete, fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, and WP:NACTOR. SailingInABathTub ( talk) 10:41, 15 March 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete not notable for any entertainment endevor. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:53, 15 March 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep He is a prolific director, actor, writer, singer. I have now added to the article a clearer reference about his nomination for Best Directing (Comedy), Indie Soap Awards, which is a subject-independent reference clearly establishing notability. Larry Grossman ( talk) 07:09, 16 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Do you have any references to back up your claims of him being a "prolific" director, actor, writer or singer? I do not believe the Indie Soap Awards are a notable award concurring notability to this person. Natg 19 ( talk) 18:12, 16 March 2021 (UTC) reply

1. The IMDb page on him listing works in almost every entertainment category, i.e., acting, directing, cinematography, writing, composing and producing from 2004 through 2017 show his work to be prolific in the 2000s and 2010s, and the listed works are independently verifiable, see https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1907292/ 2. His appearance in a nationally televised UPS Store commercial means he has been seen by millions of people on TV - that in and of itself makes him notable. See: https://www.ispot.tv/topic/actor-actress/kVO/jd-mata. Note: The foregoing link is independent of the subject matter of the article. 3. If you think that being nominated for an Indie Soap Award does not make the nominee notable the article on Indie Soap Awards for deletion! If you do not think the Indie Soap Awards article should be nominated for deletion, I cannot see how you could believe that individual nominees are not made notable by their nomination, since it is a national award with only six nominees in each category yearly. Yet, his notability does not rest merely on that one award nomination by any means. Larry Grossman ( talk) 23:07, 17 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Please note that being nominated for a notable award once does not make the subject notable. See WP:ANYBIO. SailingInABathTub ( talk) 00:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Fair enough - however, that taken along with 1. his appearance in a nationally televised commercial, as referenced and linked in the article; 2. appearance in a well-known Lil Wayne video "How to Love," that is referenced and linked in the article, 3. appearance in the repeating role Luca in True Blood as referenced in the article, and 4. all of his other artistic works over the 14-year period referenced in the article firmly establish his notability. How many times does someone have to appear in artistic works viewed by millions of people before they are considered notable? The nomination for a notable award is just an indicator of his notabilty. When all of his artistic works - many viewed by millions - plus his nomination for a notable award are taken together, there can be only one conclusion, he is notable and worthy of a Wikipedia article. Larry Grossman ( talk) 07:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC) reply
• In which case the applicable criteria for notability that Mata must pass is either WP:NACTOR as an actor, or WP:NMUSICBIO as a musician. 1., 2. & 4. - If any of the works that he appears in were notable they would have their own articles, and if he had a significant role in those works he would be notable 3. - I can't see any reference to Mata or his character in the main cast of Tru Blood, or anywhere in the article. As it stands, I can't see how he meets the notability requirements. SailingInABathTub ( talk) 10:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC) reply
• I agree with SailingInABathTub on these points. Additionally, simply appearing in videos or artistic works does not make someone notable. I would consider him notable if he had starring roles in these notable works, but WP:NOTINHERITED. As for his "artistic works over 14 years", I looked at his IMDB page, and I see a total of 6 acting credits. He additionally has 5 director credits, some of which overlap with his acting credits, which leads me to believe that he produced/directed/acted in some independent films. Nothing on his IMDB page leads me to believe that he is a notable or prolific actor. Natg 19 ( talk) 16:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Thank you SailingInABathTub for pointing out that the True Blood article needs to be edited to include J.D. Mata's TWELVE appearances! I intend to edit it this weekend to include him. In the meantime, here is a link to the True Blood Fandom page dedicated to his role and listing his 12 appearances. ^[1]. Also, here is a link to another subject-independent website showing him love and celebrating him as a Texas actor from McAllen. ^[2]. Twelve appearances in a notable series with independent coverage by his fans makes him notable under WP:NACTOR. Larry Grossman ( talk) 09:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Addendum: I just found in reviewing Wikipedia'a article on Season 4 of True Blood TWO references to "Tio Luca," which is the character J.D. Mata plays. Please see True Blood (season 4) and read the descriptions of both Episode 42 and Episode 43. To nail this in terms of WP:NACTOR, 1. True Blood is a notable series, 2. J.D. Mata has had multiple notable appearances, notable enough that the True Blood Season 4 article mentions his character twice [and I have not edited that article - those references were put in by someone else who finds those appearances so notable that they added it to the Wikipedia article on that season]. 3. Each episode is a separate work, therefore based JUST on his notable appearances in this notable show, he qualifies under WP:NACTOR as notable for having a notable role in multiple notable works. ( talk) 09:46, 20 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Second addendum: I just found a reference to Tio Luca in New York Magazine ^[3] Larry Grossman ( talk) 09:58, 20 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Even though Mata was in the cast of True Blood, he did not portray a major or notable character, so he still does not qualify for WP:NACTOR. Natg 19 ( talk) 05:35, 21 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• I completely disagree with you, Natg 19. He appeared 12 times in the same role as Tio Luca. A character appearing in TWELVE separate episodes is a notable character that most fans of True Blood, a notable series, would recognize. Larry Grossman ( talk) 08:12, 21 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Delete Not notable and the article has almost no content except for a list of credits with no other information about this individual, his education or professional background. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:11, 23 March 2021 (UTC) reply

*Keep I disagree with Liz's immediately above assertion made with no support that the subject is not notable despite all the points of notability I mentioned in the prior discussion; for example, his being nominated for best director for a notable award, the Indie Soap Awards; however, I would like to raise a new argument supporting his notability which is his triumph over institutionalized racism as a Chicano artist in reaching the level of notability that he has and ask you to re-consider your support of deletion by asking yourself if you might unwittingly be supporting institutionalized racism by applying standards of notability that if applied across the board might cause Wikipedia to be even less diverse and less representative. Give this guy a break! By deleting lesser known, though notable, artists from Wikipedia you are holding them down and making it harder for them to become even more notable, and if they are non-white and/or Hispanic artists you are causing Wikipedia to become an instrument of institutional racism! I invite you to view the works I have referenced and see his charm and artistic magic - maybe not for you, but are you sure that there aren't tens of thousands of viewers in, say, East L.A. or South Texas who are underrepresented in Wikipedia that might really love and remember his works? ...and as to the article itself, yes, the article can be much improved, but I can't do it by myself and if you delete it the Wikipedia community cannot improve it! Please reconsider. Larry Grossman ( talk) 01:18, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

@ Larry Grossman: please don't add another keep to every comment if you wish to comment on another editors vote just use a : to indent your message. I have struck your second keep vote. 02:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcmatter ( talk • contribs) 02:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Got it - I had thought that the relisting meant it was a new discussion and I could vote again but it sounds like it is just a continuation of the previous discussion. I would thank you but do not know who to thank since you did not sign your post. Larry Grossman ( talk) 04:37, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Delete I see nothing to put them over WP:NACTOR, WP:NMUSIC or even WP:ANYBIO. The only keep argument hasn't offered any solid evidence that any of the criteria have been met. Being nominated for an award is not a criteria for inclusion. Race bias in coverage is not an argument for inclusion, even if it is proven that it is happening for this subject, Wikipedia is not the place to soapbox this. McMatter ^{( talk)}/_{( contrib)} 02:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Weak delete. I did find one newspaper article where he was the main subject through my university library: Crystal Olvera (July 29, 2011). "Watch McAllen actor J.d. Mata on HBO's 'True Blood' [8 p.m. Sunday, July 31]". The Monitor. The article is a substantial interview of the actor's role as the Medicine Man on 'True Blood' and his experience on set, as well as covering details of other work he has done in film, music videos, television, etc. However, this is the only substantial source I could find, therefore the actor fails WP:SIGCOV. A hometown boy makes it in Hollywood story isn't notable enough on its own. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:01, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

4meter4 I did find a second secondary source reviewing his work on True Blood in glowing terms and note that both of these secondary sources are Texas-focused. It seems to me that he is certainly notable in Texas. If this article is deleted then you are taking away the ability of an reader of Wikipedia to look him up and get some more information about him. In fact that is why I started this article, because I looked him up and could not believe there was not a Wikipedia page about him. Here is the second secondary source focusing on him: http://lovingtruebloodindallas.blogspot.com/2011/07/watch-mcallen-actor-jd-mata-on-hbos.html. Larry Grossman ( talk) 04:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Seeing as you had hesitatingly recommended delete, does this new secondary source focusing on him give you further hesitancy or even convert your recommendation into a keep? Larry Grossman ( talk) 04:53, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

I've now added FOUR secondary sources covering Mata's role as Tio Luca, a recurring character in the notable series True Blood. This has to be sufficient to prove notability. Please re-evaluate delete recommendations in view of this. Larry Grossman ( talk) 05:23, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

If it didn't before, the article now meets WP:SIGCOV. Larry Grossman ( talk) 05:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

• Delete per nom. Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. -- Kemalcan ( talk) 08:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Kemalcan, does not fail WP:GNG which links to Wikipedia:Multiple sources which contains a banner at the top saying "This page in a nutshell: It would be hard to challenge a subject's notability when the subject is covered by THREE [emphasis mine] references in reliable sources that are independent of each other." THE ARTICLE NOW REFERENCES FIVE RELIABLE SOURCES COVERING HIM AND THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER. In the foregoing statement I have only counted secondary sources. Larry Grossman ( talk) 14:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Larry you may need to review what makes a good reliable source here on Wikipedia, we do not accept user generated content as reliable sources this includes such things as blogs, wikis (including Wikipedia and fandom) and IMDB. We also don't accept self published sources like vimeo, youtube and press releases. This means the only source adding any value to the notability threshold or considered reliable is The Monitor reference, everything else is either passing mentions of the character, not the actor, user generated content or self published. McMatter ^{( talk)}/_{( contrib)} 14:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Thank you for your guidance, McMatter. I will re-evaluate the sources I've included. I just need some time to digest this and find sources meeting the established criteria. Hopefully this discussion can remain open for at least a week from the time of relisting to give me time to do so. Larry Grossman ( talk) 22:29, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

I have now edited the article to contain a link to a 2005 KABC-TV profile covering him and his directing and acting work in "Pan Dulce." This is a valid subject independent secondary source establishing notability; however, I do not presently have direct access to KABC-TV's archives, so I have for now linked to the clip via YouTube and yes, it was posted by the subject. Nonetheless the clip itself is a valid subject-independent secondary source.

• Delete The sources found by Larry Grossman are not reliable. trueblood.fandom.com and anything with .blogspot.com are going to be non-reliable self published sources. The Vulture article doesn't mention the subject. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 15:04, 24 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Correction, ScottishFinnishRaddish, the trueblood.fandom.com and blogspot.com references are user generated but importantly they are not self-published. Larry Grossman ( talk) 15:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC) reply

WP:Self-published sources: That is why self-published material such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs... are largely not acceptable as sources. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 15:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Yes, I completely understand and generally agree with your point about self-published sources; however, a distinction needs to be drawn between SELF-published and merely user-published, and in fact, there is only ONE SELF-published reference I am seeing referenced in the article and even that is merely a republication of an independent and reliable secondary source - and almost 3-minute 2005 KABC-TV spot focused on the subject of the article and here is link to it for ease of reference ^[1]. Larry Grossman ( talk) 05:40, 26 March 2021 (UTC) reply

I've now referenced a direct citation to the 2005 KABC-TV 3 minute segment featuring the subject and his movie Pan Dulce, so now you have TWO subject-independent, non-self or other user-published SECONDARY sources focused on him namely: 1. George Pennachio of KABC-TV news's 2005 3-minute feature of him and his first feature-length film "Pan Dulce," and 2. Crystal Olvera's 2011 article published in the The Monitor (Texas) featuring him and his acting work in HBO's True Blood. Note that the these two sources are separated by six years in time, demonstrating endurance of notability of the subject, focus on completely different artistic works, and were published in different states (California and Texas). Finally, his 2012 nomination for an Indie Soap Award for Directing (Comedy) further supports notability. While being nominated for a notable award in and of itself may not ESTABLISH notability, it certainly SUPPORTS it and when taken along with other completely subject independent reliable secondary sources separated by years of time and by place and completely focused on the subject, does establish notability. A fourth point for those on the fence is the 2012 New York Vulture article (another reliable subject independent secondary source) mentioning his recurring True Blood character Tio Luca. Even though it only mentions him by the name of his character, he is the only one who has ever played that character in True Blood, so it must be about him! Larry Grossman ( talk) 07:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.