- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. PhantomSteve/ talk| contribs\ 17:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
International Piano Competition “Johann Sebastian Bach” Würzburg / Germany
- International Piano Competition “Johann Sebastian Bach” Würzburg / Germany ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Apparently non-notable piano competition. Does not have independent multiple reliable sources. (If author or others can find independent reliable sources in seven days, then Keep.) Robert McClenon ( talk) 11:49, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
The competition is the largest Bach Piano Competition in the World according to the Alink/Argerich catalogue. This page is set up independently - without any COI. The statistics are provided by the Bach Competition and are all accountable. The Repertoire information, Honorary Comittee and Jury, as well as the prize-winners can be found on the homepage. Independent and reliable sources can be found on sites that are used by other major piano competitions (e.g. Tchaikovsky and Geza Anda): Alink/Argerich foundation
Statistics come from the Alink/Argerich brochure and the home page of the Bach Competition:
- [ [4]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirill Monorosi ( talk • contribs)
- I know it'll be concerning for you that the article has been nominated, but it does you no credit to skip over the potential WP:COI. Are you not the winner of a diploma in 2010? [5] At the very least, this should be declared rather than glossed over. Likewise, your relationship to Walter Blankenheim, if there was one, should be declared.
- The Bach Competition website is reliable for supplying details of the winners, but it's no good for establishing notability, so we can ignore it. The other sources that you provide are basically directories of music competitions. I'm sure that the better among them might be reliable (AAF certainly looks well constructed, not that that necessarily means it's the most reliable), but they're basically just list websites. The sorts of sources that you need to establish notability in this case are things like newspaper articles.
- You might want to have a quick look at another competition page that someone tried to deploy, Draft:International_Arthur_Grumiaux_Competition, as the review decline templates have put in all the links to the relevant policies that you'll likely need to familiarise yourself with.
- Don't forget to sign your posts with ~~~~ Bromley86 ( talk) 22:38, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the constructive tips Bromley86. Am fixing the outlined issues now (new to this so bear with me!) Thanks again! ~~~~ Kirill Monorosi
A question on citations: I have a number of sources in the form of newspaper articles from the first competitions (e.g. 1992, 1995, 2001, etc) but they are not digitised and there is no link to them. Can I still reference them? (the dates and page numbers are there, so they can be verified, and I am happy to send through a scan. Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 00:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Offline sources are perfectly acceptable, Kirill Monorosi, so you can cite those newspaper articles, and you don't need to scan them (which might be a copyright violation). Cordless Larry ( talk) 06:59, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
/info/en/?search=XV_Gina_Bachauer_International_Piano_Competition External sources were consulted and cited for additional information) |
Let me know if the number of independent sources that are now cited sufficient. There are also numerous other newspaper articles that are not digitised that I can cite; however, at the moment I have only cited those that are digitized, as they are easier to verify. Thanks Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 02:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Delete as searches clearly found nothing noticeably better of coverage, overall article still questionable for the needed notability. SwisterTwister talk 23:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Could you please explain what kind of coverage is needed? I am not sure I understand what notability is needed when even these competitions have a wikipedia page: /info/en/?search=Gregynog_Young_Musicians_Competition /info/en/?search=Ciutat_de_Carlet_International_Piano_Competition /info/en/?search=International_Piano_Competition_Svetislav_Stan%C4%8Di%C4%87 Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 04:59, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd advise you to not worry about what other things have made it onto WP: I've seen blatantly promotional pages survive for years. If anyone can be bothered to, all 3 of those articles will be scrapped, as there's not a single source between them that establishes notability.
- Newspaper articles are the thing. Or specialist magazines, perhaps, as long as they're not too specialised. So, if we were looking at a martial arts competition, mention of the (made up) Joe Bloggs Gojo-ryu Competition in the (made up) Okinawan Martial Monthly would not establish notability, but mention of the same in Black Belt Magazine (a major mag), Blitz Magazine (a minor mag) and a national newspaper would establish notability. Bromley86 ( talk) 12:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MelanieN ( talk) 00:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle ( talk) 04:45, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:53, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. -- Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:53, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Have added citations from various sources as requested. Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 13:14, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Delete. Still not notable. Bromley86 ( talk) 12:17, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Articles from national newspapers such as Saarbruecker Zeitung and more importantly MAIN POST have been cited (these are digitised and can be verified). More citations can be added (there are about 4 articles for every of the 9 competitions from 1992, as well as articles from National Newspapers of the Prize-winner's countries). Again, according to the independent observer of International Competition Gustav Alink of the Alink-Argerich Foundation: this is the largest Bach Piano Competition in the world (he is writing an article about it at the moment for the AAF, where all statistics about number of contestants and countries, as well as the impact of the competition will be published). If it is not notable, then I don't know what is. It is of course a specialist undertaking without the massive public appeal of the Super Bowl. So is it just a numbers game? Again, much less notable competitions have wikipedia pages that are not marked for deletion. Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 04:38, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment having won one prize in one of these competitions does not provide significant COI. DGG ( talk ) 05:41, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. I think there is enough evidence that this is a significant competition, and enough sources to show notability DGG ( talk ) 05:57, 5 June 2016 (UTC)1
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 16:02, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. PhantomSteve/ talk| contribs\ 17:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
International Piano Competition “Johann Sebastian Bach” Würzburg / Germany
- International Piano Competition “Johann Sebastian Bach” Würzburg / Germany ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Apparently non-notable piano competition. Does not have independent multiple reliable sources. (If author or others can find independent reliable sources in seven days, then Keep.) Robert McClenon ( talk) 11:49, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
The competition is the largest Bach Piano Competition in the World according to the Alink/Argerich catalogue. This page is set up independently - without any COI. The statistics are provided by the Bach Competition and are all accountable. The Repertoire information, Honorary Comittee and Jury, as well as the prize-winners can be found on the homepage. Independent and reliable sources can be found on sites that are used by other major piano competitions (e.g. Tchaikovsky and Geza Anda): Alink/Argerich foundation
Statistics come from the Alink/Argerich brochure and the home page of the Bach Competition:
- [ [4]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirill Monorosi ( talk • contribs)
- I know it'll be concerning for you that the article has been nominated, but it does you no credit to skip over the potential WP:COI. Are you not the winner of a diploma in 2010? [5] At the very least, this should be declared rather than glossed over. Likewise, your relationship to Walter Blankenheim, if there was one, should be declared.
- The Bach Competition website is reliable for supplying details of the winners, but it's no good for establishing notability, so we can ignore it. The other sources that you provide are basically directories of music competitions. I'm sure that the better among them might be reliable (AAF certainly looks well constructed, not that that necessarily means it's the most reliable), but they're basically just list websites. The sorts of sources that you need to establish notability in this case are things like newspaper articles.
- You might want to have a quick look at another competition page that someone tried to deploy, Draft:International_Arthur_Grumiaux_Competition, as the review decline templates have put in all the links to the relevant policies that you'll likely need to familiarise yourself with.
- Don't forget to sign your posts with ~~~~ Bromley86 ( talk) 22:38, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the constructive tips Bromley86. Am fixing the outlined issues now (new to this so bear with me!) Thanks again! ~~~~ Kirill Monorosi
A question on citations: I have a number of sources in the form of newspaper articles from the first competitions (e.g. 1992, 1995, 2001, etc) but they are not digitised and there is no link to them. Can I still reference them? (the dates and page numbers are there, so they can be verified, and I am happy to send through a scan. Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 00:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Offline sources are perfectly acceptable, Kirill Monorosi, so you can cite those newspaper articles, and you don't need to scan them (which might be a copyright violation). Cordless Larry ( talk) 06:59, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
| The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
/info/en/?search=XV_Gina_Bachauer_International_Piano_Competition External sources were consulted and cited for additional information) |
Let me know if the number of independent sources that are now cited sufficient. There are also numerous other newspaper articles that are not digitised that I can cite; however, at the moment I have only cited those that are digitized, as they are easier to verify. Thanks Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 02:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Delete as searches clearly found nothing noticeably better of coverage, overall article still questionable for the needed notability. SwisterTwister talk 23:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Could you please explain what kind of coverage is needed? I am not sure I understand what notability is needed when even these competitions have a wikipedia page: /info/en/?search=Gregynog_Young_Musicians_Competition /info/en/?search=Ciutat_de_Carlet_International_Piano_Competition /info/en/?search=International_Piano_Competition_Svetislav_Stan%C4%8Di%C4%87 Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 04:59, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd advise you to not worry about what other things have made it onto WP: I've seen blatantly promotional pages survive for years. If anyone can be bothered to, all 3 of those articles will be scrapped, as there's not a single source between them that establishes notability.
- Newspaper articles are the thing. Or specialist magazines, perhaps, as long as they're not too specialised. So, if we were looking at a martial arts competition, mention of the (made up) Joe Bloggs Gojo-ryu Competition in the (made up) Okinawan Martial Monthly would not establish notability, but mention of the same in Black Belt Magazine (a major mag), Blitz Magazine (a minor mag) and a national newspaper would establish notability. Bromley86 ( talk) 12:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MelanieN ( talk) 00:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle ( talk) 04:45, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:53, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. -- Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:53, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Have added citations from various sources as requested. Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 13:14, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Delete. Still not notable. Bromley86 ( talk) 12:17, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Articles from national newspapers such as Saarbruecker Zeitung and more importantly MAIN POST have been cited (these are digitised and can be verified). More citations can be added (there are about 4 articles for every of the 9 competitions from 1992, as well as articles from National Newspapers of the Prize-winner's countries). Again, according to the independent observer of International Competition Gustav Alink of the Alink-Argerich Foundation: this is the largest Bach Piano Competition in the world (he is writing an article about it at the moment for the AAF, where all statistics about number of contestants and countries, as well as the impact of the competition will be published). If it is not notable, then I don't know what is. It is of course a specialist undertaking without the massive public appeal of the Super Bowl. So is it just a numbers game? Again, much less notable competitions have wikipedia pages that are not marked for deletion. Kirill Monorosi ( talk) 04:38, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment having won one prize in one of these competitions does not provide significant COI. DGG ( talk ) 05:41, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. I think there is enough evidence that this is a significant competition, and enough sources to show notability DGG ( talk ) 05:57, 5 June 2016 (UTC)1
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 16:02, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.