- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion.
I expected that we would hear from the article creator but no argument to Keep here. Still do to low participation, I have to close this as a Soft Deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 02:20, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
Indian colonisation of Khotan
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- Indian colonisation of Khotan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Another messy pov ridden and non-notable article ( WP:POVFORK) by User:Jonharojjashi, this time relying on legendary stories to Indianize the Kingdom of Khotan, despite the WP:RS in the latter saying something completely else (that they were founded by Sakas). Wouldn't be surprised if Jonharojjashi had misused some of the WP:RS in this article as well, wouldn't be the first time [1]. Heck, Jonharojjashi is even citing William Bayne Fisher here, though has purposefully omitted the part where he states the Kingdom of Khotan was founded by Sakas, [1] which is mentioned in the Kingdom of Khotan article.
Instead of obsessing over uncorroborated legends and create a whole article out of it, Jonharojjashi should perhaps look into the consensus in
WP:RS instead of ignoring it (such as they did to the WP:RS in
Kingdom of Khotan), such as this pretty relevant excerpt; "In the version of the Travels, it is the ministers of the son of King Aśoka (ca. 272-31 BCE) who fled India and founded Khotan, where the earth rose in the form of a breast. In the Life (Beal, 1888, p. 203) and in the Tibetan Prophecy of the Li (that is, Khotan) Country (Thomas, pt. 1, pp. 100 f.; Emmerick, 1967, pp. 19-21), it is the banished prince himself who, having been fed by the breast from the earth, later founded the kingdom. Although found in two independent sources, which shows that the story was widespread, it is a legend devised to claim a noble origin of the lineage and should not be confused with historical data (against this see Emmerick, 1979, p. 167; Idem, 1983, p. 263). No colonialization of Khotan by India in the 3rd century BCE is to be considered seriously."
This is written by Hiroshi Kumamoto
[2], an expert in Khotanese history (eg
[3]).
I think this excerpt from Jonharojjashi's report [4] sums it up pretty well; "It seems sufficient that this editor (Jonharojjashi) is habitually citing poor sources, misusing better ones in an OR matter, and PoV-forking at will, all to push a viewpoint that is clearly counter-historical and India-promotional." HistoryofIran ( talk) 02:25, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: At best, parts of the contents of the article could be added to an "alternative theories" section on the Kingdom of Khotan article. But as it contradicts reliable sources, it does not merit its own article.
-
^ Fisher, William Bayne; Yarshater, Ehsan (1968).
The Cambridge History of Iran. Cambridge University Press. p. 614.
ISBN
978-0-521-20092-9.
One branch of the Sakas who founded a kingdom in Khotan (in the Tarim Basin) were zealous Buddhist....
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, China, and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note. The reference above should be attributed to its author rather than the series editors:Gabain, A. von (1983). "Irano-Turkish Relations in the Late Sasanian Period". In Yarshater, Ehsan (ed.). The Cambridge History of Iran, vol 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 1. Cambridge University Press. p. 614. doi: 10.1017/CHOL9780521200929.021. ISBN 978-0-521-20092-9. Folly Mox ( talk) 04:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion.
I expected that we would hear from the article creator but no argument to Keep here. Still do to low participation, I have to close this as a Soft Deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 02:20, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
Indian colonisation of Khotan
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Indian colonisation of Khotan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Another messy pov ridden and non-notable article ( WP:POVFORK) by User:Jonharojjashi, this time relying on legendary stories to Indianize the Kingdom of Khotan, despite the WP:RS in the latter saying something completely else (that they were founded by Sakas). Wouldn't be surprised if Jonharojjashi had misused some of the WP:RS in this article as well, wouldn't be the first time [1]. Heck, Jonharojjashi is even citing William Bayne Fisher here, though has purposefully omitted the part where he states the Kingdom of Khotan was founded by Sakas, [1] which is mentioned in the Kingdom of Khotan article.
Instead of obsessing over uncorroborated legends and create a whole article out of it, Jonharojjashi should perhaps look into the consensus in
WP:RS instead of ignoring it (such as they did to the WP:RS in
Kingdom of Khotan), such as this pretty relevant excerpt; "In the version of the Travels, it is the ministers of the son of King Aśoka (ca. 272-31 BCE) who fled India and founded Khotan, where the earth rose in the form of a breast. In the Life (Beal, 1888, p. 203) and in the Tibetan Prophecy of the Li (that is, Khotan) Country (Thomas, pt. 1, pp. 100 f.; Emmerick, 1967, pp. 19-21), it is the banished prince himself who, having been fed by the breast from the earth, later founded the kingdom. Although found in two independent sources, which shows that the story was widespread, it is a legend devised to claim a noble origin of the lineage and should not be confused with historical data (against this see Emmerick, 1979, p. 167; Idem, 1983, p. 263). No colonialization of Khotan by India in the 3rd century BCE is to be considered seriously."
This is written by Hiroshi Kumamoto
[2], an expert in Khotanese history (eg
[3]).
I think this excerpt from Jonharojjashi's report [4] sums it up pretty well; "It seems sufficient that this editor (Jonharojjashi) is habitually citing poor sources, misusing better ones in an OR matter, and PoV-forking at will, all to push a viewpoint that is clearly counter-historical and India-promotional." HistoryofIran ( talk) 02:25, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: At best, parts of the contents of the article could be added to an "alternative theories" section on the Kingdom of Khotan article. But as it contradicts reliable sources, it does not merit its own article.
-
^ Fisher, William Bayne; Yarshater, Ehsan (1968).
The Cambridge History of Iran. Cambridge University Press. p. 614.
ISBN
978-0-521-20092-9.
One branch of the Sakas who founded a kingdom in Khotan (in the Tarim Basin) were zealous Buddhist....
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, China, and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note. The reference above should be attributed to its author rather than the series editors:Gabain, A. von (1983). "Irano-Turkish Relations in the Late Sasanian Period". In Yarshater, Ehsan (ed.). The Cambridge History of Iran, vol 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 1. Cambridge University Press. p. 614. doi: 10.1017/CHOL9780521200929.021. ISBN 978-0-521-20092-9. Folly Mox ( talk) 04:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.