The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗ plicit 12:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC) reply

Hitaikakushi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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I'm nominating this page for deletion based on it being WP:DISPUTED and it lacking notability. I already marked it for normal deletion on the 19th, but it was removed by an admin a day later on the basis that its talk page merits an Articles of Deletion discussion be had. And I mean totally deleted, not a redirection or anything. The word "hitaikakushi" must be expunged.

The current Talk page is in agreement, however, that the article is both unnotable and flagrantly misleading at best. As was already stated there, the minuscule article's content has already been present in entirety on Yūrei for a while. Pretty sure this is WP:NOPAGE. It fits better within context in Yūrei. The article of clothing here does not even has its own Japanese page, as was stated before on the talk page.

Aside from all of that, it's just plain wrong (as was also discussed about in the talk page). The term "hitaikakushi" (額隠し) used in reference to this article of clothing is incredibly obscure to non-existent in Japanese sources. As shown in the talk page (yeah IDK if I have to keep restating that), the most comprehensive Japanese dictionaries do not list the triangular headpiece that yūrei wear as a definition for 額隠し. If you search up "額隠し" on Google you will not find any pictures of that headwear from Japanese results. The only currently proposed source that claims "hitaikakushi" is a valid word used to describe this head garment is Zack Davisson on both his blog [1] and book Yūrei: The Japanese Ghost. However, these non-academic, uncited sources seem to cross the threshold into WP:DUBIOUS. I also noted that "hitaikakushi" was among the last of a list of words he chose to describe this cloth.

The actual most commonly accepted name for this headwear is tenkan (天冠). In fact, it's the first word Zack Davisson uses in both of his writings on the topic. I don't think changing the article's name is enough. It should be deleted. There is an absolute dearth of reputable sources on the topic in Japanese. The only one I could find is [2] (again, 天冠 is used most here). I can find zero sound sources in English. The reason I proposed deletion in the first place was because I kept seeing this article of clothing being referred to as "hitaikakushi" in pop culture fandom spaces (basically the only other place besides academia that widely discusses these things). Everywhere on the English WEB calls this thing "hitaikakushi", a word Japanese people don't even use in that context, and it all traces back to this Wikipedia page. What's more interesting is that Zack Davisson's blog post and book were made in 2011, 5 years after the "Hitakakushi" page was originally created. He may have gotten it from here. Given how long it's been I wouldn't be surprised if it found its way into other English published media. This citogenesis can not go on any longer.

I originally planned to mark the page for Speedy Deletion before regular Deletion since I thought the case was clear-cut. I'm miffed that it's gone all the way here. In the end you'd be hard pressed to find any good sources for this article of clothing. Your best bet would be Japanese research papers and scholarly publications. Even then, I believe there wouldn't be enough content to add to the article to make it notable. It's weird that this stub has persisted for over 15 years and weirder that it's this hard to delete when it's been actively propagating misinfo. Apologies in advanced for my breaking of any of Wikipedia's myriad etiquette norms or rules or the like. I'm new (made an account solely for this) and never thought there'd be this many bureaucratic hoops to jump through. Hisouhihisouten ( talk) 05:52, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete - Regardless of anything else, the subject is not independently notable enough for its own article, and there is really no argument for why this should be WP:SPLIT from the article on Yūrei. Merging is not necessary because the only sentence of information here, that Yūrei are often depicted with a triangular head cloth, is already present on that article in the section on their appearance. The discussion on the Talk page, which is summarized in the nomination, makes a pretty convincing case as to why the term should not even be used as a Redirect, as its becoming increasingly more likely that it is inaccurate. Rorshacma ( talk) 06:41, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom; no complaints. Discussion on talk page seems to have resolved in favor of non-notability.
• Comment - I'm wondering, does this process also delete the versions of this article in other languages too or do separate processes go into making that decision? All 4 of them are entirely based on the English page, with the same reference. Hisouhihisouten ( talk) 07:19, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply

Hisouhihisouten, this process only applies to the en-wiki. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 16:29, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply

I've added a comment thread at es:Discusión:Hitaikakushi pointing readers to this page and the Talk:Hitaikakushi page. I have not yet dug through to figure out their policy for AfD.

I don't have sufficient facility with French, Italian, Catalan, or Vietnamese to do anything about those. ‑‑  Eiríkr Útlendi │ ^{Tala við mig} 16:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete no salvageable content so not worth renaming to the actual term for this (tenkan). Doesn’t even explain why Japanese ghosts wear these. Dronebogus ( talk) 07:55, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Mythology and Japan. Shellwood ( talk) 08:02, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete. I stumbled across the Wikipedia entry when following up on the activity of a user who has been a long-time problem at EN Wikt, persistently adding incorrect Japanese content both there and here. This user does not have any ability to read or understand Japanese, and gets their ideas from pop culture and other English-language materials -- which, more often than not, aren't quite correct to begin with.

As described on that Talk page, the article is basically entirely wrong. The only undisputed factoids are that there is a triangular piece of cloth in Japanese culture that is worn on the forehead in specific situations, and that this is associated with Japanese ghosts. More detail on the Talk page, including a run-down of the names for this cloth, none of which are hitai-kakushi. ‑‑  Eiríkr Útlendi │ ^{Tala við mig} 16:45, 26 May 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete per Rorshacma above. Llwyld ( talk) 07:37, 27 May 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete as citogenesis is one of my waking nightmares(!). Hisouhihisouten – I know you're new, but these kinds of low-editing-traffic stubs can get left in the weeds for over a decade or more, and even if deletion wasn't the right decision (though in this case it definitely is), I'd like to thank you for taking up an awkward little stub article and giving it some attention. It makes Wikipedia better when we focus on the little things as well as the large, high-importance articles.-- Ineffablebookkeeper ( talk) ({{ ping}} me!) 10:17, 27 May 2022 (UTC) reply
• Comment. Hitaikakushi is the pretty local name of the mentioned piece of Japanese burial clothes. See Here. In the book 葬送習俗事典 (roughly: Dictionary of the funeral customs and practices in Japan), 12 or 13 local names of that piece are shown. Hitaikakushi is one of them. 紙冠 (shihan) or 天冠 (tenkan) are proper name for this burial clothes. Creating the Tenkan (crown), and creating the disambiguation entry Shihan (clothes) and the redirect Sankakuzukin (三角頭巾) are adequate, if any. In amazon-jp, this piece is sold under the name tenkan, sankakuzukin ( here). The word Tenkan has 5 or 6 usages, one of them means this piece. (In ja wikipedia, they seem to feel necessity of the article 天冠. See ja:Shiroshōzoku). Tenkan is fairly notable word (see Digital Daijisen). For the article Tenkan (crown), this source ( Kotobank) may be useful. -- Flora fon Esth ( talk) 09:23, 29 May 2022 (UTC) reply

According to the reference link given, hitai-kakushi is only listed for one town on Sado Island -- an exceedingly limited dialectal area, as I think you intended with your comment that this "is the pretty local name". I note too that the town listed, Kawaharada-machi (JA WP page at ja:河原田町), ceased to exist after it was annexed into Sawata-machi in 1954, which in turn was subsumed into Sado City in 2004 -- which leads me to wonder how old this mention of hitai-kakushi might be?

Considering what I've read in other references, and considering also the regular kanji readings, I suspect that shihan as a reading for 紙冠 is a typo, or possibly a rare kan'yōon (customary reading) -- all other references that I have consulted list 紙冠 with readings of kami kaburi, kami kōburi, or shikan (see entry at Kotobank), while the relevant term with reading shihan is 紙半, as also listed on that same page. 紙半 would mean literally "paper half", perhaps in reference to the triangle being half of a square folded diagonally. While missing from Kotobank, my local copy of the Kōjien dictionary includes this term (紙半 read as shihan) with this sense ("triangular piece of white paper or white cloth placed on the forehead for funerals"), although it doesn't include any etymology.

I am insufficiently familiar with the policy here on Wikipedia with regard to redirects to make any recommendations. ‑‑  Eiríkr Útlendi │ ^{Tala við mig} 19:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC) reply

This is the AfD page. I wrote a comment for what would we do after deletion of the entry hitaikakushi. Hitaikakushi is not wrong and incorrect word or name. But it is not notable. However, then, what name or word is notable and correct? That triangle piece or accessory for funeral ceremony is pretty notable. Most Japanese peoples may know it.

『葬送習俗事典』 is the book by Kunio Yanagida, possibly written or published in around 1930s. It is the old book. But Yanagida is the authority of these matters. As to shihan, usually 紙冠 cannot be read as shihan. it is read as shikan. Yanagida wrote in his book: シハンは紙冠の訛りではないかと考えられる (shihan may be thought as the corrupted "紙冠, shikan"). Google book ref. In most books of Kankonsōsai (Guide book for ordinary ceremonies), that piece with white triangle may appear. It may be notable like koinobori or tsunokakushi. But the correct name of that piece is not sure. Death and dead body are considered as matters of kegare. So people tends to avoid clearly saying them, that is, kegare matters. And thus the name of that triangle piece may be unsure. (But shikan seems to be more popular than shihan).

After deletion of hitaikakushi, should we create the article addressing that piece or not. And if it is necessary, what article name is adequate. This is what my comment says. (For this kind of discussion, other page is adequate than AfD). -- Flora fon Esth ( talk) 05:30, 1 June 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Flora fon Esth: We can say with (some) certainty that hitai-kakushi is historically correct. However, I have not yet seen any reference using this term in a modern context. We have just the one reference, from one location, apparently from before 1954. I cannot support using this term (hitai-kakushi) for this sense (triangular funereal headdress) in any way that implies current usage, until and unless we can find sources that indicate the term is still current.

I do not believe that the subject itself is notable enough to warrant an independent article. I would support including this in some other, larger article, perhaps at Yūrei or List of items traditionally worn in Japan.

Regarding what we should call it, it appears that Japanese-language sources are themselves unsettled on the matter, listing multiple distinct possible names, many of which also have other senses. It is possible that the kegare associations might make this somewhat "taboo"; it is certainly a hyper-specific context. Wherever we ultimately decide to put information about this garment, it might be best to simply list the multiple names by which Japanese speakers refer to it -- with whatever additional detail we can glean (such as if certain names are from specific regions, that kind of thing). ‑‑  Eiríkr Útlendi │ ^{Tala við mig} 18:38, 1 June 2022 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.