- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. The discussion was split early on, but after Julle improved the article, nobody new to the debate suggested it should be deleted, and only one person argued against notability being demonstrated. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
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Inadequately referenced article about a band notable only for appearing in, but not winning, a reality show. As always, competing in a reality show is not an automatic notability freebie in and of itself, but literally nothing else stated here passes WP:NMUSIC either -- and even the referencing is parked on one video clip of their appearance itself on the reality show's own self-published website and one short blurb, which is not enough media coverage to satisfy GNG. Bearcat ( talk) 17:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 18:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 18:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - They have participated in both Talang and Melodifestivalen. Their song was released yesterday and will without a doubt chart on Sverigetopplistan on Friday. Also per criteria 1 on WP:NMUSIC, by friday they will cover Criteria 2 of the same guideline. They also cover Criteria 10 and 12 of WP:NMUSIC as of today. Clearly notable. BabbaQ ( talk) 18:31, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- The article states exactly nothing about them that is even remotely relevant to either NMUSIC #10 or NMUSIC #12. Criterion #10 does not cover off just any performance of any song on any television show, but pertains only to recording the primary theme song to a television series — and criterion #12 does not cover off every single appearance as a performer on a reality show, but only applies to news or documentary content profiling the band as a subject. Competing on a reality show and losing is not a notability criterion at all — the winner of the reality show is the only person who ever gets to have "was on a reality show" be the article-clinching notability claim in and of itself, while everybody else who competed but lost gets to have an article only if and when they have passed the same other notability benchmarks as any other musician who was never on the show at all. And releasing a single is not a notability freebie just because you predict that the song will become a hit in the future — if it hasn't already been a major hit single, then crystal balling its prospects of becoming one in the future counts for nothing. Bearcat ( talk) 21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- The "future" is in 5 days. Secondly the group covers several sections of WP:NMUSIC as established above. Also, Melodifestivalen isnt a reality show, it is an established singing competition on primetime TV.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:12, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Firstly, you are interpreting the NMUSIC criteria incorrectly: neither NMUSIC #10 nor NMUSIC #12 covers off appearing as a non-winning contestant on a music competition show at all. And for the purposes of NMUSIC, there is no significant distinction between a "reality show" and an "established singing competition on primetime TV", either — because the reality show is also a singing competition n primetime TV, and the notability criterion for that is still winning it, not just being on it and losing. Bearcat ( talk) 21:32, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - As BabbaQ writes. Only the performance yesterday on Melodifestivalen should be enough. The rest is a bonus. Adville ( talk) 20:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- They competed in Melodifestivalen and failed to advance to the next round. That is not enough — notability from Melodifestivalen derives from winning it, not just from being present.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Melodifestivalen is not a reality series. It is an established singing competition on primetime TV. Secondly, I have explained that High15 covers Criteria 10 and 12 of WP:NMUSIC. And that by friday the groups song will have charted. That is why Adville correctly !voted Keep.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you Adville for adding an additional good source to the article.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- And I've already explained above that you are interpreting both NMUSIC 10 and 12 incorrectly. Criterion 10 refers to performing the primary theme song to a television series, not just to making an appearance on it — criterion 10 notabilizes nobody appearing on any singing or talent competition as a competitor, and applies only to the composer of the theme music the show uses over its opening credits. And criterion 12 does not magically hand every contestant on a singing competition a notability pass either — it applies only to bands or musicians who have been the subjects of dedicated news or documentary specials specifically about them. Simply appearing on a singing competition but losing does not pass NMUSIC #10, and it does not pass NMUSIC #12: those are both for completely different things that have nothing to do with competing in any form of singing or talent competition but failing to win it.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Bearcat, about Talang, I agree. That is wannabees competing. Nothing more. You lose you are out.
- Melodifestivalen, however, is different. You are not in it without being someone. Maybe on your way up and notable enough to be asked to performe. Or you already are up. If you look at the land of original, Sweden and svwp, all artists/groups performing in Melodifestivalen are notable to get an article. (Not every member in a group). This makes them notable enough for an article in svwp. If you are not familiar with this part of Swedish culture, which has fostered a lot of our Great international artists, I understand your questions. But some research how it work from you will clarify it. Best regards.
Adville (
talk)
02:32, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- Well, no, that is incorrect. Melodifestivalen is a "major miusic competition", as discussed in NMUSIC. If a musician ends up in first, second, or third place, that means they meet that criterion. According to the sources, they ended up in 6th place. It's clear-cut, I'm afraid. Maybe any band that performs in schlagerfestivalen is notable enough for a sv.wp article. That has zero bearing on their notability on en.wp. -- bonadea contributions talk 18:52, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
- And I've already explained above that you are interpreting both NMUSIC 10 and 12 incorrectly. Criterion 10 refers to performing the primary theme song to a television series, not just to making an appearance on it — criterion 10 notabilizes nobody appearing on any singing or talent competition as a competitor, and applies only to the composer of the theme music the show uses over its opening credits. And criterion 12 does not magically hand every contestant on a singing competition a notability pass either — it applies only to bands or musicians who have been the subjects of dedicated news or documentary specials specifically about them. Simply appearing on a singing competition but losing does not pass NMUSIC #10, and it does not pass NMUSIC #12: those are both for completely different things that have nothing to do with competing in any form of singing or talent competition but failing to win it.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you Adville for adding an additional good source to the article.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Melodifestivalen is not a reality series. It is an established singing competition on primetime TV. Secondly, I have explained that High15 covers Criteria 10 and 12 of WP:NMUSIC. And that by friday the groups song will have charted. That is why Adville correctly !voted Keep.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- They competed in Melodifestivalen and failed to advance to the next round. That is not enough — notability from Melodifestivalen derives from winning it, not just from being present.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Keep as after their #46 debut on Spotify they'll surely make it to the Swedish charts on Friday, but for the next Mello contestants I'd suggest to wait a few days until the criteria are met to create the article. A 6th place out of 7 and a talent show participation aren't enough for relevancy IMO. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 20:47, 4 February 2019 (UTC)read below. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 23:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)- Comment: @ BabbaQ:, @ Merynancy: it looks like the song didn't chart on the Swedish Top 100 after all... in light of that, does it affect your vote above? Richard3120 ( talk) 22:48, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- It still charted on Spotify 200 and anyway cover several sections of WP:NMUSIC. So my !vote remains unchanged. BabbaQ ( talk) 22:51, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete, as the song failed to chart and the band does not meet the relevancy criteria. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 23:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Doesn't meet WP:NMUSIC, and isn't close to meeting WP:GNG. Participating in a music contest is not sufficient. If you think it ought to be, start a discussion and request to have the policy changed, at the relevant noticeboard. -- bonadea contributions talk 12:02, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- The article subject covers point 1, point 10 and point 12 of WP:NMUSIC. It is a guideline established by the Wikipedia community. Any opinion that differs from that are POV and POV never trumps guidelines. This article should be kept, if we follow our own set guidelines. BabbaQ ( talk) 10:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- The article says nothing about them that passes point 10 or point 12 — as I already pointed out above, the only way anything stated here passes either of those criteria is if you misinterpret the criteria to mean something completely different than what they were actually intended to cover. #10 covers off writing a show's theme song, not appearing on a reality show as a non-winning performer, and #12 covers off being the subject of news or documentary content, not appearing on a reality show as a non-winning performer. And all of the sources in the article are either (a) non-independent (appearing on a reality show does not translate into a notability freebie just because the reality show uploads a video clip of the performance to its own self-published website), or (b) glancing namechecks of their existence in articles that aren't about them — so passage of #1 isn't being demonstrated by these sources either. Bearcat ( talk) 19:54, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 14:46, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 14:46, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. They are not well known only because of semi-successful participation in Talang and Melodifestivalen, but came to the public eye through their Youtube channel. There are plenty of (non-trivial) coverage, mainly relating to Talang or Melodifestivalen but not exclusively. I've added more information and references, and I think the article now passes WP:GNG. /
Julle (
talk)
15:24, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Their YouTube covers' views range from 4k to 350k, I wouldn't say this makes them relevant enough as YT cover artists. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 23:40, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed, but I'm arguing more on WP:GNG grounds, adding that to the other reasons. /
Julle (
talk)
00:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- I agree with Julle. WP:GNG and parts of WP:NMUSIC met. BabbaQ ( talk) 01:03, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed, but I'm arguing more on WP:GNG grounds, adding that to the other reasons. /
Julle (
talk)
00:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. The discussion was split early on, but after Julle improved the article, nobody new to the debate suggested it should be deleted, and only one person argued against notability being demonstrated. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- High15 ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Inadequately referenced article about a band notable only for appearing in, but not winning, a reality show. As always, competing in a reality show is not an automatic notability freebie in and of itself, but literally nothing else stated here passes WP:NMUSIC either -- and even the referencing is parked on one video clip of their appearance itself on the reality show's own self-published website and one short blurb, which is not enough media coverage to satisfy GNG. Bearcat ( talk) 17:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 18:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 18:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - They have participated in both Talang and Melodifestivalen. Their song was released yesterday and will without a doubt chart on Sverigetopplistan on Friday. Also per criteria 1 on WP:NMUSIC, by friday they will cover Criteria 2 of the same guideline. They also cover Criteria 10 and 12 of WP:NMUSIC as of today. Clearly notable. BabbaQ ( talk) 18:31, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- The article states exactly nothing about them that is even remotely relevant to either NMUSIC #10 or NMUSIC #12. Criterion #10 does not cover off just any performance of any song on any television show, but pertains only to recording the primary theme song to a television series — and criterion #12 does not cover off every single appearance as a performer on a reality show, but only applies to news or documentary content profiling the band as a subject. Competing on a reality show and losing is not a notability criterion at all — the winner of the reality show is the only person who ever gets to have "was on a reality show" be the article-clinching notability claim in and of itself, while everybody else who competed but lost gets to have an article only if and when they have passed the same other notability benchmarks as any other musician who was never on the show at all. And releasing a single is not a notability freebie just because you predict that the song will become a hit in the future — if it hasn't already been a major hit single, then crystal balling its prospects of becoming one in the future counts for nothing. Bearcat ( talk) 21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- The "future" is in 5 days. Secondly the group covers several sections of WP:NMUSIC as established above. Also, Melodifestivalen isnt a reality show, it is an established singing competition on primetime TV.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:12, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Firstly, you are interpreting the NMUSIC criteria incorrectly: neither NMUSIC #10 nor NMUSIC #12 covers off appearing as a non-winning contestant on a music competition show at all. And for the purposes of NMUSIC, there is no significant distinction between a "reality show" and an "established singing competition on primetime TV", either — because the reality show is also a singing competition n primetime TV, and the notability criterion for that is still winning it, not just being on it and losing. Bearcat ( talk) 21:32, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - As BabbaQ writes. Only the performance yesterday on Melodifestivalen should be enough. The rest is a bonus. Adville ( talk) 20:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- They competed in Melodifestivalen and failed to advance to the next round. That is not enough — notability from Melodifestivalen derives from winning it, not just from being present.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Melodifestivalen is not a reality series. It is an established singing competition on primetime TV. Secondly, I have explained that High15 covers Criteria 10 and 12 of WP:NMUSIC. And that by friday the groups song will have charted. That is why Adville correctly !voted Keep.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you Adville for adding an additional good source to the article.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- And I've already explained above that you are interpreting both NMUSIC 10 and 12 incorrectly. Criterion 10 refers to performing the primary theme song to a television series, not just to making an appearance on it — criterion 10 notabilizes nobody appearing on any singing or talent competition as a competitor, and applies only to the composer of the theme music the show uses over its opening credits. And criterion 12 does not magically hand every contestant on a singing competition a notability pass either — it applies only to bands or musicians who have been the subjects of dedicated news or documentary specials specifically about them. Simply appearing on a singing competition but losing does not pass NMUSIC #10, and it does not pass NMUSIC #12: those are both for completely different things that have nothing to do with competing in any form of singing or talent competition but failing to win it.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Bearcat, about Talang, I agree. That is wannabees competing. Nothing more. You lose you are out.
- Melodifestivalen, however, is different. You are not in it without being someone. Maybe on your way up and notable enough to be asked to performe. Or you already are up. If you look at the land of original, Sweden and svwp, all artists/groups performing in Melodifestivalen are notable to get an article. (Not every member in a group). This makes them notable enough for an article in svwp. If you are not familiar with this part of Swedish culture, which has fostered a lot of our Great international artists, I understand your questions. But some research how it work from you will clarify it. Best regards.
Adville (
talk)
02:32, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- Well, no, that is incorrect. Melodifestivalen is a "major miusic competition", as discussed in NMUSIC. If a musician ends up in first, second, or third place, that means they meet that criterion. According to the sources, they ended up in 6th place. It's clear-cut, I'm afraid. Maybe any band that performs in schlagerfestivalen is notable enough for a sv.wp article. That has zero bearing on their notability on en.wp. -- bonadea contributions talk 18:52, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
- And I've already explained above that you are interpreting both NMUSIC 10 and 12 incorrectly. Criterion 10 refers to performing the primary theme song to a television series, not just to making an appearance on it — criterion 10 notabilizes nobody appearing on any singing or talent competition as a competitor, and applies only to the composer of the theme music the show uses over its opening credits. And criterion 12 does not magically hand every contestant on a singing competition a notability pass either — it applies only to bands or musicians who have been the subjects of dedicated news or documentary specials specifically about them. Simply appearing on a singing competition but losing does not pass NMUSIC #10, and it does not pass NMUSIC #12: those are both for completely different things that have nothing to do with competing in any form of singing or talent competition but failing to win it.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you Adville for adding an additional good source to the article.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Melodifestivalen is not a reality series. It is an established singing competition on primetime TV. Secondly, I have explained that High15 covers Criteria 10 and 12 of WP:NMUSIC. And that by friday the groups song will have charted. That is why Adville correctly !voted Keep.
BabbaQ (
talk)
21:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- They competed in Melodifestivalen and failed to advance to the next round. That is not enough — notability from Melodifestivalen derives from winning it, not just from being present.
Bearcat (
talk)
21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Keep as after their #46 debut on Spotify they'll surely make it to the Swedish charts on Friday, but for the next Mello contestants I'd suggest to wait a few days until the criteria are met to create the article. A 6th place out of 7 and a talent show participation aren't enough for relevancy IMO. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 20:47, 4 February 2019 (UTC)read below. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 23:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)- Comment: @ BabbaQ:, @ Merynancy: it looks like the song didn't chart on the Swedish Top 100 after all... in light of that, does it affect your vote above? Richard3120 ( talk) 22:48, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- It still charted on Spotify 200 and anyway cover several sections of WP:NMUSIC. So my !vote remains unchanged. BabbaQ ( talk) 22:51, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete, as the song failed to chart and the band does not meet the relevancy criteria. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 23:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Doesn't meet WP:NMUSIC, and isn't close to meeting WP:GNG. Participating in a music contest is not sufficient. If you think it ought to be, start a discussion and request to have the policy changed, at the relevant noticeboard. -- bonadea contributions talk 12:02, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- The article subject covers point 1, point 10 and point 12 of WP:NMUSIC. It is a guideline established by the Wikipedia community. Any opinion that differs from that are POV and POV never trumps guidelines. This article should be kept, if we follow our own set guidelines. BabbaQ ( talk) 10:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- The article says nothing about them that passes point 10 or point 12 — as I already pointed out above, the only way anything stated here passes either of those criteria is if you misinterpret the criteria to mean something completely different than what they were actually intended to cover. #10 covers off writing a show's theme song, not appearing on a reality show as a non-winning performer, and #12 covers off being the subject of news or documentary content, not appearing on a reality show as a non-winning performer. And all of the sources in the article are either (a) non-independent (appearing on a reality show does not translate into a notability freebie just because the reality show uploads a video clip of the performance to its own self-published website), or (b) glancing namechecks of their existence in articles that aren't about them — so passage of #1 isn't being demonstrated by these sources either. Bearcat ( talk) 19:54, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 14:46, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 14:46, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. They are not well known only because of semi-successful participation in Talang and Melodifestivalen, but came to the public eye through their Youtube channel. There are plenty of (non-trivial) coverage, mainly relating to Talang or Melodifestivalen but not exclusively. I've added more information and references, and I think the article now passes WP:GNG. /
Julle (
talk)
15:24, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Their YouTube covers' views range from 4k to 350k, I wouldn't say this makes them relevant enough as YT cover artists. ×°˜`°× ηαη¢у×°˜`°× 23:40, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed, but I'm arguing more on WP:GNG grounds, adding that to the other reasons. /
Julle (
talk)
00:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- I agree with Julle. WP:GNG and parts of WP:NMUSIC met. BabbaQ ( talk) 01:03, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed, but I'm arguing more on WP:GNG grounds, adding that to the other reasons. /
Julle (
talk)
00:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.