- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. postdlf ( talk) 20:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
- Henry Raynor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Doesn't seem to be the subject of in-depth coverage in reliable sources. ( "Counterpoint+from+Manchester"+Guardian&oq="Counterpoint+from+Manchester"+Guardian&aqs=chrome..69i57.3633j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&tbm=bks&q=Henry+Raynor+music) Dweller ( talk) 14:37, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: Should be assessed by Academic, I think. The thesis presented in the article is pretty middle of the road for Marxist analysis, and there is now a very robust markets-to-music analysis (e.g. Pound Notes to Quarter Notes). The present article doesn't do a very good job of clarity. Hithladaeus ( talk) 17:29, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Keep User:Dweller I think we have to assess this one under WP:PROFESSOR as User:Hithladaeus suggests, even though Raynor was a writer, not a professor, he retains notability as a scholar. The article claims that his major work was Social History of Music, so I typed that title into JSTOR and found half a dozen reviews in major journals. Run a google books search on Social Hisotry of Music + Raynor and it is instantly apparent that the book has been widely cited. The article needs the attention of someone who is familiar with the historiography of music. I know that there's a tag for that. Probably best to tag it for improvement, and attention by an expert and withdraw the AFD. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 21:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Review A Social History of Music by Henry Raynor Review by: Robert E. Bays Social Science Quarterly, Vol. 54, No. 2 (SEPTEMBER, 1973), p. 432
...Science Quarterly Henry Raynor . A Social History of Mu- sic . New York: Schocken Books, 1972. 355 pages. $12.00. One may read widely in music history and never know of the Thirty Years' War, or may get the impression that the total effect of the Napoleonic years on music was...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal
Review: A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Review A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Review by: William Weber Journal of Social History, Vol. 7, No. 1 (Autumn, 1973), pp. 107-110
...presented as coherent narratives rather than as explorations of aspects of revolutions. A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven. By Henry Raynor (New York: Schocken Books, 1972. viii plus 373 pp. $ 12.00). An area of European history which has received remarkably little attention is the social history of music...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal
Review: Music and Its Background Review: Music and Its Background A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Review by: E. D. Mackerness The Musical Times, Vol. 113, No. 1554 (Aug., 1972), pp. 773-774
...Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor . Barrie & Jenkins, ?5 Since the appearance of G. M. Trevelyan's famous book in 1944, 'social history' has become a popular genre. This recent volume prompts us to look again at what exactly is involved in the social history of music...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal
Review: A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Musique et Société. Perspectives pour une Sociologie de la Musique by Ivo Supičić Review A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor; Musique et Société. Perspectives pour une Sociologie de la Musique by Ivo Supičić Review by: J. A. W. Music & Letters, Vol. 53, No. 4 (Oct., 1972), pp. 451-454
...A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven. By Henry Raynor . pp. Viii + 373. (Barrie & Jenkins, London, I972, 15.00.) Musique et Socie'te'. Perspectives pour une Sociologie de la Mlusique. By Ivo Supicic. pp. 205. (Institut de Musicologie, Zagreb, I97I.) A social history of music must be, in a sense,...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:46, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- Another review of social hist. of Music, major journal. (caveat: I have not read these reviews.) E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:49, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- another: Music and Society Since 1815. by Henry Raynor
Review by: Stephen Hart American Journal of Sociology, Vol. 84, No. 4 (Jan., 1979), pp. 1024-1028 . E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:53, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- There are also reviews of some of his work in open access, [1]. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- User:Dweller, I would have done more with this article, but I really don't know anything about music. thanks for picking this up. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 19:06, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 02:58, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - passes WP:NAUTHOR #3, had published books by major publishers like Macmillan and Scribner, and E.M. Gregory found several reviews, his writings about the social history of music may also pass #2. Kraxler ( talk) 17:27, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. postdlf ( talk) 20:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
- Henry Raynor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Doesn't seem to be the subject of in-depth coverage in reliable sources. ( "Counterpoint+from+Manchester"+Guardian&oq="Counterpoint+from+Manchester"+Guardian&aqs=chrome..69i57.3633j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&tbm=bks&q=Henry+Raynor+music) Dweller ( talk) 14:37, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: Should be assessed by Academic, I think. The thesis presented in the article is pretty middle of the road for Marxist analysis, and there is now a very robust markets-to-music analysis (e.g. Pound Notes to Quarter Notes). The present article doesn't do a very good job of clarity. Hithladaeus ( talk) 17:29, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
- Keep User:Dweller I think we have to assess this one under WP:PROFESSOR as User:Hithladaeus suggests, even though Raynor was a writer, not a professor, he retains notability as a scholar. The article claims that his major work was Social History of Music, so I typed that title into JSTOR and found half a dozen reviews in major journals. Run a google books search on Social Hisotry of Music + Raynor and it is instantly apparent that the book has been widely cited. The article needs the attention of someone who is familiar with the historiography of music. I know that there's a tag for that. Probably best to tag it for improvement, and attention by an expert and withdraw the AFD. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 21:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Review A Social History of Music by Henry Raynor Review by: Robert E. Bays Social Science Quarterly, Vol. 54, No. 2 (SEPTEMBER, 1973), p. 432
...Science Quarterly Henry Raynor . A Social History of Mu- sic . New York: Schocken Books, 1972. 355 pages. $12.00. One may read widely in music history and never know of the Thirty Years' War, or may get the impression that the total effect of the Napoleonic years on music was...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal
Review: A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Review A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Review by: William Weber Journal of Social History, Vol. 7, No. 1 (Autumn, 1973), pp. 107-110
...presented as coherent narratives rather than as explorations of aspects of revolutions. A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven. By Henry Raynor (New York: Schocken Books, 1972. viii plus 373 pp. $ 12.00). An area of European history which has received remarkably little attention is the social history of music...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal
Review: Music and Its Background Review: Music and Its Background A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Review by: E. D. Mackerness The Musical Times, Vol. 113, No. 1554 (Aug., 1972), pp. 773-774
...Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor . Barrie & Jenkins, ?5 Since the appearance of G. M. Trevelyan's famous book in 1944, 'social history' has become a popular genre. This recent volume prompts us to look again at what exactly is involved in the social history of music...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal
Review: A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor Musique et Société. Perspectives pour une Sociologie de la Musique by Ivo Supičić Review A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven by Henry Raynor; Musique et Société. Perspectives pour une Sociologie de la Musique by Ivo Supičić Review by: J. A. W. Music & Letters, Vol. 53, No. 4 (Oct., 1972), pp. 451-454
...A Social History of Music from the Middle Ages to Beethoven. By Henry Raynor . pp. Viii + 373. (Barrie & Jenkins, London, I972, 15.00.) Musique et Socie'te'. Perspectives pour une Sociologie de la Mlusique. By Ivo Supicic. pp. 205. (Institut de Musicologie, Zagreb, I97I.) A social history of music must be, in a sense,...
Read Online Download PDF
Journal. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:46, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- Another review of social hist. of Music, major journal. (caveat: I have not read these reviews.) E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:49, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- another: Music and Society Since 1815. by Henry Raynor
Review by: Stephen Hart American Journal of Sociology, Vol. 84, No. 4 (Jan., 1979), pp. 1024-1028 . E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:53, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- There are also reviews of some of his work in open access, [1]. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- User:Dweller, I would have done more with this article, but I really don't know anything about music. thanks for picking this up. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 19:06, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 02:58, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - passes WP:NAUTHOR #3, had published books by major publishers like Macmillan and Scribner, and E.M. Gregory found several reviews, his writings about the social history of music may also pass #2. Kraxler ( talk) 17:27, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.