- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Chab Dai. Consensus is that this individual does not have separate notability from the organization she founded. ( non-admin closure) clpo13( talk) 00:29, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Helen Sworn
- Helen Sworn ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Falls short of WP:BIO. Only sources are either very brief mentions in passing or from affiliated organisations. The Drover's Wife ( talk) 10:58, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. -- Ascii002 ( talk · contribs · guestbook) 12:05, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- Ascii002 ( talk · contribs · guestbook) 12:05, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 14:36, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note This interview with an academic Centre at
Georgetown University does not fit Nom's assertion that "Only sources are either very brief mentions in passing or from affiliated organisations."
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 11:08, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Those interviews are awfully random. This is the
full list, and the vast majority of people on it are just random ordinary people they've decided to interview in that specific area: at a glance, none of them stand out as obviously notable, and the vast majority of them absolutely marginal at best. I don't think there's anyone on that list that wouldn't at least be nominated for AfD if an article were created.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 11:17, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Drover's Wife, It is really not useful to make sweeping assertions of this sort. I only had to eyeball the page to see that your first assertion was inaccurate. I only had to eyeball the list you linked to (starting at the bottom) to spot the name of a man
Saad Eddin Ibrahim who I knew should have a Wikipedia article. (I checked no other names on the list) All that I am asking you to do is to slow down, and limit your assertions to what you know you can source. I also sometimes make mistaken assertions here at AFD. If called on one, I admit it. At this point, I still know nothing about Helen Sworn. But you certainly have piqued my interest. Is this another article written by that editor who put up a raft of articles on Christianity-related topics that have been up recently at AFD? I never did go back to see precisely what that editor had done merit such hated. Was he a sock? I'd appreciate the 10 second version, if you have 10 seconds.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 12:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- He was a major ideologue with a creepy obsession with sex trafficking, and a tendency to write articles on every random person who had ever crossed paths with some model he was obsessed with who was interested in it. This is one of them. I'm glad you found someone on that list who was notable, but my point stands: being selected on a vast list of nearly all non-notable people is not indicative of notability, even if all of one of them happens to be notable, and this article fails
WP:BIO dismally.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 12:18, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oh, dear. Thanks, I guess. I suppose it's not surprising that an open platform like Wikipedia attracts the occassional creepy sex guy. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:14, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- He was a major ideologue with a creepy obsession with sex trafficking, and a tendency to write articles on every random person who had ever crossed paths with some model he was obsessed with who was interested in it. This is one of them. I'm glad you found someone on that list who was notable, but my point stands: being selected on a vast list of nearly all non-notable people is not indicative of notability, even if all of one of them happens to be notable, and this article fails
WP:BIO dismally.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 12:18, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Drover's Wife, It is really not useful to make sweeping assertions of this sort. I only had to eyeball the page to see that your first assertion was inaccurate. I only had to eyeball the list you linked to (starting at the bottom) to spot the name of a man
Saad Eddin Ibrahim who I knew should have a Wikipedia article. (I checked no other names on the list) All that I am asking you to do is to slow down, and limit your assertions to what you know you can source. I also sometimes make mistaken assertions here at AFD. If called on one, I admit it. At this point, I still know nothing about Helen Sworn. But you certainly have piqued my interest. Is this another article written by that editor who put up a raft of articles on Christianity-related topics that have been up recently at AFD? I never did go back to see precisely what that editor had done merit such hated. Was he a sock? I'd appreciate the 10 second version, if you have 10 seconds.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 12:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Those interviews are awfully random. This is the
full list, and the vast majority of people on it are just random ordinary people they've decided to interview in that specific area: at a glance, none of them stand out as obviously notable, and the vast majority of them absolutely marginal at best. I don't think there's anyone on that list that wouldn't at least be nominated for AfD if an article were created.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 11:17, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Redirect and Merge to Chab Dai the organization Sworn founded. There are long, substantive interviews on Sworn's admirable work ( I added one from the Cape Argus. What is lacking are sources on her bio. So, redirect to a sourced paragraph about her as founder in the article: Chab Dai. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:14, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 19:00, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 19:00, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 01:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 01:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to Chab Dai -- I do not think that she and her organisation are sufficiently independent of each other to need two articles, However worthy the cause. Peterkingiron ( talk) 18:51, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect. This link isn't working for me, so the only significant independent coverage in RSs that I see mentioned are the film interview. Softlavender ( talk) 22:31, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Chab Dai. Consensus is that this individual does not have separate notability from the organization she founded. ( non-admin closure) clpo13( talk) 00:29, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Helen Sworn
- Helen Sworn ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Falls short of WP:BIO. Only sources are either very brief mentions in passing or from affiliated organisations. The Drover's Wife ( talk) 10:58, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. -- Ascii002 ( talk · contribs · guestbook) 12:05, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- Ascii002 ( talk · contribs · guestbook) 12:05, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 14:36, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note This interview with an academic Centre at
Georgetown University does not fit Nom's assertion that "Only sources are either very brief mentions in passing or from affiliated organisations."
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 11:08, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Those interviews are awfully random. This is the
full list, and the vast majority of people on it are just random ordinary people they've decided to interview in that specific area: at a glance, none of them stand out as obviously notable, and the vast majority of them absolutely marginal at best. I don't think there's anyone on that list that wouldn't at least be nominated for AfD if an article were created.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 11:17, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Drover's Wife, It is really not useful to make sweeping assertions of this sort. I only had to eyeball the page to see that your first assertion was inaccurate. I only had to eyeball the list you linked to (starting at the bottom) to spot the name of a man
Saad Eddin Ibrahim who I knew should have a Wikipedia article. (I checked no other names on the list) All that I am asking you to do is to slow down, and limit your assertions to what you know you can source. I also sometimes make mistaken assertions here at AFD. If called on one, I admit it. At this point, I still know nothing about Helen Sworn. But you certainly have piqued my interest. Is this another article written by that editor who put up a raft of articles on Christianity-related topics that have been up recently at AFD? I never did go back to see precisely what that editor had done merit such hated. Was he a sock? I'd appreciate the 10 second version, if you have 10 seconds.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 12:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- He was a major ideologue with a creepy obsession with sex trafficking, and a tendency to write articles on every random person who had ever crossed paths with some model he was obsessed with who was interested in it. This is one of them. I'm glad you found someone on that list who was notable, but my point stands: being selected on a vast list of nearly all non-notable people is not indicative of notability, even if all of one of them happens to be notable, and this article fails
WP:BIO dismally.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 12:18, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oh, dear. Thanks, I guess. I suppose it's not surprising that an open platform like Wikipedia attracts the occassional creepy sex guy. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:14, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- He was a major ideologue with a creepy obsession with sex trafficking, and a tendency to write articles on every random person who had ever crossed paths with some model he was obsessed with who was interested in it. This is one of them. I'm glad you found someone on that list who was notable, but my point stands: being selected on a vast list of nearly all non-notable people is not indicative of notability, even if all of one of them happens to be notable, and this article fails
WP:BIO dismally.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 12:18, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Drover's Wife, It is really not useful to make sweeping assertions of this sort. I only had to eyeball the page to see that your first assertion was inaccurate. I only had to eyeball the list you linked to (starting at the bottom) to spot the name of a man
Saad Eddin Ibrahim who I knew should have a Wikipedia article. (I checked no other names on the list) All that I am asking you to do is to slow down, and limit your assertions to what you know you can source. I also sometimes make mistaken assertions here at AFD. If called on one, I admit it. At this point, I still know nothing about Helen Sworn. But you certainly have piqued my interest. Is this another article written by that editor who put up a raft of articles on Christianity-related topics that have been up recently at AFD? I never did go back to see precisely what that editor had done merit such hated. Was he a sock? I'd appreciate the 10 second version, if you have 10 seconds.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 12:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Those interviews are awfully random. This is the
full list, and the vast majority of people on it are just random ordinary people they've decided to interview in that specific area: at a glance, none of them stand out as obviously notable, and the vast majority of them absolutely marginal at best. I don't think there's anyone on that list that wouldn't at least be nominated for AfD if an article were created.
The Drover's Wife (
talk) 11:17, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Redirect and Merge to Chab Dai the organization Sworn founded. There are long, substantive interviews on Sworn's admirable work ( I added one from the Cape Argus. What is lacking are sources on her bio. So, redirect to a sourced paragraph about her as founder in the article: Chab Dai. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:14, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 19:00, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 19:00, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 01:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 01:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to Chab Dai -- I do not think that she and her organisation are sufficiently independent of each other to need two articles, However worthy the cause. Peterkingiron ( talk) 18:51, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect. This link isn't working for me, so the only significant independent coverage in RSs that I see mentioned are the film interview. Softlavender ( talk) 22:31, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.