The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Haverford–Swarthmore rivalry

Haverford–Swarthmore rivalry (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai ( talk) 05:03, 28 December 2023 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Joeykai ( talk) 05:03, 28 December 2023 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and Pennsylvania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC) reply
• My quick search isn't turning up a lot of depth but there are a number of sources that suggest this was a real rivalry:

(i) "The Haverford-Swarthmore rivalry has been compared, on a smaller basis, to Harvard-Yale and Lehigh-Lafayette." (1982);

(ii) "The history-rich Haverford-Swarthmore football rivalry ... (1968);

(iii) "Both inspired mutual respect, and this brought about a pretty scene at the close of the game which showed that true sportsmanship rules at each college and that beneath the fierce rivalry as shown on the gridiron there is a most friendly feeling among the students of the two great Quaker institutions." (1904);

(iv) "Swarthmore and Haverford will air their fooball rivalry, dating back to 1879 ... as in most traditional rivalries, records are irrelevant when Swarthmore and Haverford meet each other." (1968);

(v) "Swarthmore and Haverford meet today for the 47th time in a college football series dripping with tradition. The suburban rivals first began playing 77 years ago." (1956).

Not sure if those are enough to merit a 'keep' vote, but this is clearly not a slam dunk for deletion. My search was brief, and results of a more comprehensive search may prove more effective. Cbl62 ( talk) 21:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Comment: I took a look at those sources, and did a check myself, but while they all mention a rivalry none of them actually cover it in depth as a topic. I'm leaning towards delete here, but will hold off on a !vote in case other sources can be found. Let'srun ( talk) 14:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• I'm on the fence but leaning keep. To my surprise, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grand Canyon Rivalry closed as "Keep" a couple days ago (I had voted "delete") with far less of a claim to be a notable rivalry. In this case, we have a legit and historic rivalry between programs with real connectons (both academically rigorous Quaker colleges located about 10 miles apart in the Philadelphia suburbs). The search for coverage is inhibited a bit given that the two colleges stopped playing each other in football 50 years ago -- well before the era of mass media and the internet. We should factor that into our evaluation of what constitutes SIGCOV. Cbl62 ( talk) 21:57, 2 January 2024 (UTC) reply
• Lean keep. Although most of the coverage is short, there is a lot of it suggesting this was a notable rivalry. In addition to the coverage found by Cbl:

1941 Haverford News ("...heated rivalry...third-oldest intercollegiate rivalry in the United States...")

2019 Delaware County Daily Times ("Swarthmore holds on to beat Haverford in another chapter of storied rivalry")

2021 This Is Lower Merion ("The Fords went out in style, topping Swarthmore 22-21 in the final game of a storied rivalry, one that dated back to 1879.")

1919 New York Times ("SWARTHMORE WINS EASILY.; Swamps Old Rivals from Haverford")

Coverage in Swarthmore College: An Informal History.

1916 New York Times ("HAVERFORD IS VICTORIOUS.; Conquers Its Ancient Rival")

1949 Philadelphia Inquirer ("70-year-old rivalry")

1914 Evening Public Ledger ("Haverford-Swarthmore Football History Notable") – probably the best one – gives good-sized account of the series history.

1951 Philadelphia Inquirer ("rich old rivalry")

• Plus other coverage I don't feel like going through. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 01:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:41, 4 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• Weak Delete Keep: While there have been multiple sources presented, I'm just not seeing any in-depth sources discussing this game series as a rivalry. The sources offered in this AfD do mention a rivalry, but none of them have the WP:SIGCOV needed to meet the WP:GNG. We should be viewing this based on the existence of sources, not the presumption that they may exist, as well. Willing to change my vote if better sources are found, so please ping me if so. Changing vote per source found below. Let'srun ( talk) 22:03, 7 January 2024 (UTC) reply
  • @ Let'srun: What's wrong with this source? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:29, 7 January 2024 (UTC) reply

    Much better. Changing my vote as such. Let'srun ( talk) 22:31, 7 January 2024 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.