- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. -- Patar knight - chat/ contributions 02:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
- Hank Thomas ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This person is certainly very accomplished, but is in fact notable for a WP:SINGLEEVENT. While numerous secondary sources support his existence, every one of them centers around his participation in a Freedom Ride. There is no indication of receiving any significant awards, or of any significant leadership in the civil rights movement. Participating in a freedom ride does not guarantee a Wikipedia article. Magnolia677 ( talk) 21:50, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 23:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 23:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 23:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Keep He has been featured specifically in various news stories for his role in the civil rights movement beyond a single event (he was involved in several notable events including the bus burning and a court case he raised). [1] [2] [3] [4] Of course news stories mention that he was a freedom rider, but WP:SINGLEEVENT applies when the only coverage of somebody is in the context of a single event and not where they receive coverage for years after about their other work ("if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified"). He is included in the International Civil Rights Walk of Fame which is a significant honor (most inductees are notable). -- Colapeninsula ( talk) 09:52, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
- Except for the first source listed, the other three focus almost exclusively on his participation in the freedom rides, a single event. The subsequent media coverage about his business and art collection would not have been notable if not for his participation in (not leadership of) the freedom rides. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:51, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Per Colapeninsula. Also, Hank participated in four Freedom Rides, not one - a preparatory ride on April 22, 1961, the original CORE Freedom Ride during May 4–17, 1961 for which he is best known, a Mississippi Freedom Ride on May 24, 1961, and a New Jersey to Arkansas CORE Freedom Ride during July 13–24, 1961. Please see the List of Freedom Rides section for details. Mitchumch ( talk) 17:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
- Delete His role as a businessman is not enough to make him notable. His role in the Freedom Rides was not formative enough to make him notable either. He was just one of many participants, and being a participant in such an event does not make one notable. The article goes too deeply into coat racking other subjects.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 04:27, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- @ Johnpacklambert: Hank was one of 18 participants in the original CORE Freedom Ride and one of 7 participants in the bus that was firebombed in Anniston, Alabama. That Freedom Ride in combination with the Nashville Student Movement Freedom Ride in 1961 was a pivotal event in the Civil Rights Movement. It is on par with the Greensboro sit-ins of 1960, the Birmingham campaign of 1963, and the Harlem riot of 1964. Each of those events served as a massive catalyst for subsequent events. Hanks continued participation in three other Freedom Rides has placed him in a unique position that few of the other 436 participants can claim. Mitchumch ( talk) 06:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Not every footsoldier in the civil rights movement was notable. Just as the Brooklyn Bridge is notable, not every one of the hundreds who build it are. Every argument to keep this article centers on the fact that this person--along with 436 others--participated in something notable. Yet I see nothing particularly notable about his participation. Being involved in a historical event does not automatically make you notable, and there is nothing to indicate he was a leader or "major participant".
Magnolia677 (
talk) 13:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- "Being involved" in this historical event went beyond Thomas being one of the first Freedom Riders with the CORE group, where he was almost burned alive and, in escaping the burning bus, was whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat. Then what he did after that horrendous and life-threatening-to-the-extreme experience was what few went on to do - he joined the continuation of the Freedom Ride 10 days later, when it was picked up by the Nashville Student Movement. John Lewis was another original rider who completed the entire trip. The Freedom Ride ended in Jackson, Mississippi, and there Thomas was immediately arrested and jailed, probably for trying to desegregate the segregated Waiting Room. This fellow is as notable as notable-worthy on Wikipedia can be, per sources.
Randy Kryn 15:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Being "almost burned alive" and "whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat" do not contribute to notability. From my read, and from the arguments put forward in the AfD, this person was a non-notable footsoldier. Perhaps some mention of Thomas could instead be added to the Freedom Riders article. He was certainly no
Fannie Lou Hamer.
Magnolia677 (
talk) 18:17, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Possibly if, after almost being burned alive and living through a skull-crushing swing of a baseball bat, he had run off, I could see your point. His main notoriety is that he boarded the next Freedom Ride bus with John Lewis and others, and rode it to the finish. Fannie Lou Hamer is someone else, who was active a little later. This page is about Hank Thomas, who is as notable per Wikipedia criteria as Hamer and other noted civil rights activists of the 1960s. Randy Kryn 19:03, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- @ Magnolia677: Hank has received sufficient coverage in reliable sources to warrant the existence of his article page. I've searched through numerous articles listed in the ProQuest database. If need be, then I can start listing every newspaper article that covered him on his article page. Hank is as notable as Joseph McNeil, Franklin McCain, Ezell Blair Jr., and David Richmond who all initiated the Greensboro sit-ins. Being "almost burned alive" and "whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat" by pro-segregationist are precisely why the spectacle of that event and its participants are remembered and taught to students. That violent reaction motivated others to continue to challenge pro-segregationist thru more Freedom Rides. Mitchumch ( talk) 21:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Being "almost burned alive" and "whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat" do not contribute to notability. From my read, and from the arguments put forward in the AfD, this person was a non-notable footsoldier. Perhaps some mention of Thomas could instead be added to the Freedom Riders article. He was certainly no
Fannie Lou Hamer.
Magnolia677 (
talk) 18:17, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- "Being involved" in this historical event went beyond Thomas being one of the first Freedom Riders with the CORE group, where he was almost burned alive and, in escaping the burning bus, was whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat. Then what he did after that horrendous and life-threatening-to-the-extreme experience was what few went on to do - he joined the continuation of the Freedom Ride 10 days later, when it was picked up by the Nashville Student Movement. John Lewis was another original rider who completed the entire trip. The Freedom Ride ended in Jackson, Mississippi, and there Thomas was immediately arrested and jailed, probably for trying to desegregate the segregated Waiting Room. This fellow is as notable as notable-worthy on Wikipedia can be, per sources.
Randy Kryn 15:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Not every footsoldier in the civil rights movement was notable. Just as the Brooklyn Bridge is notable, not every one of the hundreds who build it are. Every argument to keep this article centers on the fact that this person--along with 436 others--participated in something notable. Yet I see nothing particularly notable about his participation. Being involved in a historical event does not automatically make you notable, and there is nothing to indicate he was a leader or "major participant".
Magnolia677 (
talk) 13:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Strong keep, as a major participant in the Freedom Rides (Rides, not just one Ride) Thomas was chosen as the spokesperson at the recent dedication of the Freedom Riders Monument. His "single event" (actually four single events) was one of the most historic and courageous ongoing events in the early 1960s. Per adequate sourcing, and per Mitchumch and Colapeninsula who summarize Thomas' notability correctly. Randy Kryn 11:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Keep = while not all the Freedom Riders are notable, the more active ones certainly would be, as is this subject. Bearian ( talk) 23:18, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. -- Patar knight - chat/ contributions 02:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
- Hank Thomas ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This person is certainly very accomplished, but is in fact notable for a WP:SINGLEEVENT. While numerous secondary sources support his existence, every one of them centers around his participation in a Freedom Ride. There is no indication of receiving any significant awards, or of any significant leadership in the civil rights movement. Participating in a freedom ride does not guarantee a Wikipedia article. Magnolia677 ( talk) 21:50, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 23:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 23:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 23:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
- Keep He has been featured specifically in various news stories for his role in the civil rights movement beyond a single event (he was involved in several notable events including the bus burning and a court case he raised). [1] [2] [3] [4] Of course news stories mention that he was a freedom rider, but WP:SINGLEEVENT applies when the only coverage of somebody is in the context of a single event and not where they receive coverage for years after about their other work ("if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified"). He is included in the International Civil Rights Walk of Fame which is a significant honor (most inductees are notable). -- Colapeninsula ( talk) 09:52, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
- Except for the first source listed, the other three focus almost exclusively on his participation in the freedom rides, a single event. The subsequent media coverage about his business and art collection would not have been notable if not for his participation in (not leadership of) the freedom rides. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:51, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Per Colapeninsula. Also, Hank participated in four Freedom Rides, not one - a preparatory ride on April 22, 1961, the original CORE Freedom Ride during May 4–17, 1961 for which he is best known, a Mississippi Freedom Ride on May 24, 1961, and a New Jersey to Arkansas CORE Freedom Ride during July 13–24, 1961. Please see the List of Freedom Rides section for details. Mitchumch ( talk) 17:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
- Delete His role as a businessman is not enough to make him notable. His role in the Freedom Rides was not formative enough to make him notable either. He was just one of many participants, and being a participant in such an event does not make one notable. The article goes too deeply into coat racking other subjects.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 04:27, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- @ Johnpacklambert: Hank was one of 18 participants in the original CORE Freedom Ride and one of 7 participants in the bus that was firebombed in Anniston, Alabama. That Freedom Ride in combination with the Nashville Student Movement Freedom Ride in 1961 was a pivotal event in the Civil Rights Movement. It is on par with the Greensboro sit-ins of 1960, the Birmingham campaign of 1963, and the Harlem riot of 1964. Each of those events served as a massive catalyst for subsequent events. Hanks continued participation in three other Freedom Rides has placed him in a unique position that few of the other 436 participants can claim. Mitchumch ( talk) 06:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Not every footsoldier in the civil rights movement was notable. Just as the Brooklyn Bridge is notable, not every one of the hundreds who build it are. Every argument to keep this article centers on the fact that this person--along with 436 others--participated in something notable. Yet I see nothing particularly notable about his participation. Being involved in a historical event does not automatically make you notable, and there is nothing to indicate he was a leader or "major participant".
Magnolia677 (
talk) 13:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- "Being involved" in this historical event went beyond Thomas being one of the first Freedom Riders with the CORE group, where he was almost burned alive and, in escaping the burning bus, was whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat. Then what he did after that horrendous and life-threatening-to-the-extreme experience was what few went on to do - he joined the continuation of the Freedom Ride 10 days later, when it was picked up by the Nashville Student Movement. John Lewis was another original rider who completed the entire trip. The Freedom Ride ended in Jackson, Mississippi, and there Thomas was immediately arrested and jailed, probably for trying to desegregate the segregated Waiting Room. This fellow is as notable as notable-worthy on Wikipedia can be, per sources.
Randy Kryn 15:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Being "almost burned alive" and "whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat" do not contribute to notability. From my read, and from the arguments put forward in the AfD, this person was a non-notable footsoldier. Perhaps some mention of Thomas could instead be added to the Freedom Riders article. He was certainly no
Fannie Lou Hamer.
Magnolia677 (
talk) 18:17, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Possibly if, after almost being burned alive and living through a skull-crushing swing of a baseball bat, he had run off, I could see your point. His main notoriety is that he boarded the next Freedom Ride bus with John Lewis and others, and rode it to the finish. Fannie Lou Hamer is someone else, who was active a little later. This page is about Hank Thomas, who is as notable per Wikipedia criteria as Hamer and other noted civil rights activists of the 1960s. Randy Kryn 19:03, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- @ Magnolia677: Hank has received sufficient coverage in reliable sources to warrant the existence of his article page. I've searched through numerous articles listed in the ProQuest database. If need be, then I can start listing every newspaper article that covered him on his article page. Hank is as notable as Joseph McNeil, Franklin McCain, Ezell Blair Jr., and David Richmond who all initiated the Greensboro sit-ins. Being "almost burned alive" and "whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat" by pro-segregationist are precisely why the spectacle of that event and its participants are remembered and taught to students. That violent reaction motivated others to continue to challenge pro-segregationist thru more Freedom Rides. Mitchumch ( talk) 21:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Being "almost burned alive" and "whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat" do not contribute to notability. From my read, and from the arguments put forward in the AfD, this person was a non-notable footsoldier. Perhaps some mention of Thomas could instead be added to the Freedom Riders article. He was certainly no
Fannie Lou Hamer.
Magnolia677 (
talk) 18:17, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- "Being involved" in this historical event went beyond Thomas being one of the first Freedom Riders with the CORE group, where he was almost burned alive and, in escaping the burning bus, was whacked on the side of the head with a baseball bat. Then what he did after that horrendous and life-threatening-to-the-extreme experience was what few went on to do - he joined the continuation of the Freedom Ride 10 days later, when it was picked up by the Nashville Student Movement. John Lewis was another original rider who completed the entire trip. The Freedom Ride ended in Jackson, Mississippi, and there Thomas was immediately arrested and jailed, probably for trying to desegregate the segregated Waiting Room. This fellow is as notable as notable-worthy on Wikipedia can be, per sources.
Randy Kryn 15:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Not every footsoldier in the civil rights movement was notable. Just as the Brooklyn Bridge is notable, not every one of the hundreds who build it are. Every argument to keep this article centers on the fact that this person--along with 436 others--participated in something notable. Yet I see nothing particularly notable about his participation. Being involved in a historical event does not automatically make you notable, and there is nothing to indicate he was a leader or "major participant".
Magnolia677 (
talk) 13:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Strong keep, as a major participant in the Freedom Rides (Rides, not just one Ride) Thomas was chosen as the spokesperson at the recent dedication of the Freedom Riders Monument. His "single event" (actually four single events) was one of the most historic and courageous ongoing events in the early 1960s. Per adequate sourcing, and per Mitchumch and Colapeninsula who summarize Thomas' notability correctly. Randy Kryn 11:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- Keep = while not all the Freedom Riders are notable, the more active ones certainly would be, as is this subject. Bearian ( talk) 23:18, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.