- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing remains insufficient Star Mississippi 00:10, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Grafterr
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- Grafterr ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet requirements of WP:CORP. Coverage is routine churnalism about funding. SmartSE ( talk) 10:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Software and Scotland. SmartSE ( talk) 10:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello SmartSE,
- I am writing to address your proposed deletion of the company page for Grafterr, a cloud-based software company with offices in Edinburgh, Scotland, and London, England. I believe that the proposed deletion is a mistake, and I would like to provide reasons why the page should not be deleted.
- Notability and Significance: Grafterr is a software company that has made significant contributions to the field of cloud-based point of sale in the Uk and I have provided all the news and magazines articles published in this context. The company's presence in two major cities, Edinburgh and London, indicates its regional importance in the technology sector.
- Coverage of Corporate Information: While the deletion proposal suggests that the coverage of Grafterr is routine journalism about funding, it's essential to note that Wikipedia articles about companies often include information about their growth, as it is a vital aspect of their development and growth. However, I have removed this part too just to emphasize that there is no mention about funding.
- Encyclopedic Value: Wikipedia serves as a valuable resource for information on a wide range of topics, including companies like Grafterr. Readers often turn to Wikipedia to learn about notable businesses, their history, and their contributions to various industries. Deleting this page would deprive users of access to valuable and reliable information.
- Potential for Improvement: If there are concerns about the quality or neutrality of the article, I am open to working on improving it. Wikipedia articles are collaborative efforts, and I am willing to make the necessary edits to address any issues raised by the community.
- In light of the points mentioned above, I kindly request that you reconsider the close of the proposed deletion of the Grafterr Wikipedia page. I believe that the page meets the criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia and provides valuable information to users interested in learning about this company.
- The article was mistakenly flagged for focusing on the company's value and growth rather than funding, but it has since been enhanced to offer an impartial and thorough overview of Grafterr's activities, history, and influence within the technology sector. Additionally, any content related to the company's value that raised concerns has been carefully reviewed and removed to ensure compliance with Wikipedia's guidelines for neutrality and verifiability.
- Thank you for your time and consideration.
- Ewis. EwisEwee ( talk) 11:39, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- A COI using ChatGPT to explain why it shouldn't be deleted is a new one here in AfD. Novel idea, but doesn't really help.
Oaktree b (
talk)
13:34, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello Oaktree! First of all, I am sorry for using LLMs, which by the way it was Bard not ChatGPT. To be honest, I used it to help me clarify a lot of the ideas I wrote. Which I won't do again, especially since I haven't used any AI on the page itself—just edits, summaries, and comments to save time fixing the structure of comments.
- As for being COI! I don't why I am being punished for following the rules and being honest? It said in Articles for Creation that I should say if I have a conflict of interest, which I did, and I did; here is a point I mentioned earlier today in my page: I work in one of the company's subsidiaries, as the company works in India, UK, and has two offices in the UK. My reason behind creating the article is simple, as I see a lot of comments and questions regarding the company on a regular basis, I figured out that it will be great to create a Wikipedia page, especially that the company changed its name recently from ePOS Hybrid to Grafterr. And this caused a lot of confusion.
- I will reply to all other comments too and please let me know how can I optimize it already. Thank you. EwisEwee ( talk) 10:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- A COI using ChatGPT to explain why it shouldn't be deleted is a new one here in AfD. Novel idea, but doesn't really help.
Oaktree b (
talk)
13:34, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete No decent coverage found from my search. Only coverage that I found that isn't a one word mention are obvious
churnalism.
Ca
talk to me!
11:50, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello! I don't get what you mean by "Only coverage that I found that isn't a one word mention are obvious
churnalism" ? Anyway as you couldn't find decent coverage, let me explain what I mentioned to Oaktree in my page.
- I believe you couldn't find reliable news outlets because the company changed the name recently this year from ePOS Hybrid, the company was founded in Edinburgh, so most of the outlets are based in Scotland, and there are many British based, here are many of them:
- Before the name was changed:
- https://www.scotsman.com/business/scottish-hospitalitys-recovery-needs-support-from-government-as-survey-shows-backing-for-price-rises-3185740
- https://www.thenational.scot/news/17498468.app-set-innovate-scotlands-food-drink-industry/
- https://www.insider.co.uk/appointments/restaurant-tech-start-up-hires-16176845
- https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/best-in/eating-out/edinburgh-based-allergy-tech-firm-to-help-solve-food-label-issue-546790
- https://www.thenational.scot/news/17645255.tech-firm-sets-tackle-scotlands-food-waste-new-software/
- https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2019/05/restaurants-could-end-food-waste-with-technology/
- https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2020/02/payments-firm-epos-hybrid-crowdfunds-a-further-100k/
- https://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/articles/epos-hybrid-restaurants-on-the-rack-as-home-dining-becomes-the-norm
- Please use ePOS hybrid or Grafterr and then maybe associate it with Scotland or Edinburgh to find many of them.
- Announcing the name change:
- https://www.insider.co.uk/news/hospitality-tech-firm-rebrands-following-29382300
- https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/03/edinburgh-tech-firm-rebrand-following-six-figure-investment/
- EwisEwee ( talk) 10:42, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello! I don't get what you mean by "Only coverage that I found that isn't a one word mention are obvious
churnalism" ? Anyway as you couldn't find decent coverage, let me explain what I mentioned to Oaktree in my page.
- Delete: Delete. This turns up from 1907
[1], but it doesn't help. I can't find sources for this corporation we could use.
Oaktree b (
talk)
13:32, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Haha Of course that doesn't relate to the company. The company changed the name recently and that's why you couldn't find a lot of news. I have shared above many of old articles too, and a lot of them were published by The Scotsman, it is actually the biggest news outlet in Sctoland. Again the company was founded in Scotland and that's why you many of the sources are based in Scotland. EwisEwee ( talk) 11:00, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Finance and Companies. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 13:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Adding a source search for the company's former name below. The parent company iHybrid Ltd is based in Croydon so it is worth also adding another sorting listing. AllyD ( talk) 07:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. AllyD ( talk) 07:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Matching the sources which the article author linked above to our criteria at
WP:CORPDEPTH: the Insider (21/5/19) item is a routine appointment announcement; The National 13/3/19 item, the Edinburgh Reporter and The National items (both 17/5/19) are presenting the company's benefit case pitch on their product, as is the quotation from their CEO in Edinburgh Evening News (15/5/19); the Daily Business 13/2/20 item is about their Crowdcube fundraiser; The Scotsman 1/4/21 item and the Scottish Business News 20/3/22 item are replaying research released by the firm; the Insider and Edinburgh Reporter (both 6/3/23 and near-identical) items are announcement-based: these all fall under trivial coverage at
WP:CORPDEPTH.
AllyD (
talk)
13:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- What you deem trivial information is actually of extremely high value to others, for example, the research piece was of extremely high value and importance to those working in the UK hospitality industry or similar verticals. Entrepreneurs are always seeking insights as this. Most of what you call them "trivial coverage" were initiated by business journalists all over Scotland.
- Grafterr has been featured in a number of printed articles in major UK publications as well, here's a few examples:
- https://i.ibb.co/h1WyWpj/01.jpg
- https://i.ibb.co/km0Frxx/02.jpg
- Grafterr have also raised over £4.5 million in private equity and crowdfunding investment. Here's two examples of large crowd funding-rising the company completed:
- https://www.crowdcube.com/companies/epos-hybrid/pitches/qr9OGb
- https://www.crowdcube.com/companies/epos-hybrid/pitches/qajeyl
- This represents large interest in the company from the general public.
- The Scotsman is one of the oldest and biggest newspapers in Scotland, what should be a good source? CNN? EwisEwee ( talk) 20:14, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Aside from the sources discussed above, searches find
a feature list and user reviews but
nothing which demonstrates that this hospitality POS firm has attained
notability under either its current or prior name. (And, a note for the LLM Bot: firms do not inherit notability by having offices in two notable cities.)
AllyD (
talk)
07:36, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
- I believe there is a misconception; first, we said that The Scotsman, Edinburgh Reporter, The National, and others are not appropriate sources despite being the largest in the Scottish economy, and then you use a very general advice website to claim that the firm POS does not achieve notability! Can you see the paradox?
- Of course, since the company gets reviews all the time, every reliable review site has changed the name from ePOS Hybrid to Grafterr; please see the following:
- https://www.feefo.com/en-GB/reviews/ihybrid-limited
- https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/grafterr.com
- You should learn more about the Scottish entrepreneurial environment; there are tech businesses all across the world, not only in Silicon Valley ;) EwisEwee ( talk) 20:23, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing remains insufficient Star Mississippi 00:10, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Grafterr
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Grafterr ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet requirements of WP:CORP. Coverage is routine churnalism about funding. SmartSE ( talk) 10:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Software and Scotland. SmartSE ( talk) 10:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello SmartSE,
- I am writing to address your proposed deletion of the company page for Grafterr, a cloud-based software company with offices in Edinburgh, Scotland, and London, England. I believe that the proposed deletion is a mistake, and I would like to provide reasons why the page should not be deleted.
- Notability and Significance: Grafterr is a software company that has made significant contributions to the field of cloud-based point of sale in the Uk and I have provided all the news and magazines articles published in this context. The company's presence in two major cities, Edinburgh and London, indicates its regional importance in the technology sector.
- Coverage of Corporate Information: While the deletion proposal suggests that the coverage of Grafterr is routine journalism about funding, it's essential to note that Wikipedia articles about companies often include information about their growth, as it is a vital aspect of their development and growth. However, I have removed this part too just to emphasize that there is no mention about funding.
- Encyclopedic Value: Wikipedia serves as a valuable resource for information on a wide range of topics, including companies like Grafterr. Readers often turn to Wikipedia to learn about notable businesses, their history, and their contributions to various industries. Deleting this page would deprive users of access to valuable and reliable information.
- Potential for Improvement: If there are concerns about the quality or neutrality of the article, I am open to working on improving it. Wikipedia articles are collaborative efforts, and I am willing to make the necessary edits to address any issues raised by the community.
- In light of the points mentioned above, I kindly request that you reconsider the close of the proposed deletion of the Grafterr Wikipedia page. I believe that the page meets the criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia and provides valuable information to users interested in learning about this company.
- The article was mistakenly flagged for focusing on the company's value and growth rather than funding, but it has since been enhanced to offer an impartial and thorough overview of Grafterr's activities, history, and influence within the technology sector. Additionally, any content related to the company's value that raised concerns has been carefully reviewed and removed to ensure compliance with Wikipedia's guidelines for neutrality and verifiability.
- Thank you for your time and consideration.
- Ewis. EwisEwee ( talk) 11:39, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- A COI using ChatGPT to explain why it shouldn't be deleted is a new one here in AfD. Novel idea, but doesn't really help.
Oaktree b (
talk)
13:34, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello Oaktree! First of all, I am sorry for using LLMs, which by the way it was Bard not ChatGPT. To be honest, I used it to help me clarify a lot of the ideas I wrote. Which I won't do again, especially since I haven't used any AI on the page itself—just edits, summaries, and comments to save time fixing the structure of comments.
- As for being COI! I don't why I am being punished for following the rules and being honest? It said in Articles for Creation that I should say if I have a conflict of interest, which I did, and I did; here is a point I mentioned earlier today in my page: I work in one of the company's subsidiaries, as the company works in India, UK, and has two offices in the UK. My reason behind creating the article is simple, as I see a lot of comments and questions regarding the company on a regular basis, I figured out that it will be great to create a Wikipedia page, especially that the company changed its name recently from ePOS Hybrid to Grafterr. And this caused a lot of confusion.
- I will reply to all other comments too and please let me know how can I optimize it already. Thank you. EwisEwee ( talk) 10:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- A COI using ChatGPT to explain why it shouldn't be deleted is a new one here in AfD. Novel idea, but doesn't really help.
Oaktree b (
talk)
13:34, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete No decent coverage found from my search. Only coverage that I found that isn't a one word mention are obvious
churnalism.
Ca
talk to me!
11:50, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello! I don't get what you mean by "Only coverage that I found that isn't a one word mention are obvious
churnalism" ? Anyway as you couldn't find decent coverage, let me explain what I mentioned to Oaktree in my page.
- I believe you couldn't find reliable news outlets because the company changed the name recently this year from ePOS Hybrid, the company was founded in Edinburgh, so most of the outlets are based in Scotland, and there are many British based, here are many of them:
- Before the name was changed:
- https://www.scotsman.com/business/scottish-hospitalitys-recovery-needs-support-from-government-as-survey-shows-backing-for-price-rises-3185740
- https://www.thenational.scot/news/17498468.app-set-innovate-scotlands-food-drink-industry/
- https://www.insider.co.uk/appointments/restaurant-tech-start-up-hires-16176845
- https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/best-in/eating-out/edinburgh-based-allergy-tech-firm-to-help-solve-food-label-issue-546790
- https://www.thenational.scot/news/17645255.tech-firm-sets-tackle-scotlands-food-waste-new-software/
- https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2019/05/restaurants-could-end-food-waste-with-technology/
- https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2020/02/payments-firm-epos-hybrid-crowdfunds-a-further-100k/
- https://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/articles/epos-hybrid-restaurants-on-the-rack-as-home-dining-becomes-the-norm
- Please use ePOS hybrid or Grafterr and then maybe associate it with Scotland or Edinburgh to find many of them.
- Announcing the name change:
- https://www.insider.co.uk/news/hospitality-tech-firm-rebrands-following-29382300
- https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/03/edinburgh-tech-firm-rebrand-following-six-figure-investment/
- EwisEwee ( talk) 10:42, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello! I don't get what you mean by "Only coverage that I found that isn't a one word mention are obvious
churnalism" ? Anyway as you couldn't find decent coverage, let me explain what I mentioned to Oaktree in my page.
- Delete: Delete. This turns up from 1907
[1], but it doesn't help. I can't find sources for this corporation we could use.
Oaktree b (
talk)
13:32, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Haha Of course that doesn't relate to the company. The company changed the name recently and that's why you couldn't find a lot of news. I have shared above many of old articles too, and a lot of them were published by The Scotsman, it is actually the biggest news outlet in Sctoland. Again the company was founded in Scotland and that's why you many of the sources are based in Scotland. EwisEwee ( talk) 11:00, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Finance and Companies. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 13:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Adding a source search for the company's former name below. The parent company iHybrid Ltd is based in Croydon so it is worth also adding another sorting listing. AllyD ( talk) 07:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. AllyD ( talk) 07:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Matching the sources which the article author linked above to our criteria at
WP:CORPDEPTH: the Insider (21/5/19) item is a routine appointment announcement; The National 13/3/19 item, the Edinburgh Reporter and The National items (both 17/5/19) are presenting the company's benefit case pitch on their product, as is the quotation from their CEO in Edinburgh Evening News (15/5/19); the Daily Business 13/2/20 item is about their Crowdcube fundraiser; The Scotsman 1/4/21 item and the Scottish Business News 20/3/22 item are replaying research released by the firm; the Insider and Edinburgh Reporter (both 6/3/23 and near-identical) items are announcement-based: these all fall under trivial coverage at
WP:CORPDEPTH.
AllyD (
talk)
13:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- What you deem trivial information is actually of extremely high value to others, for example, the research piece was of extremely high value and importance to those working in the UK hospitality industry or similar verticals. Entrepreneurs are always seeking insights as this. Most of what you call them "trivial coverage" were initiated by business journalists all over Scotland.
- Grafterr has been featured in a number of printed articles in major UK publications as well, here's a few examples:
- https://i.ibb.co/h1WyWpj/01.jpg
- https://i.ibb.co/km0Frxx/02.jpg
- Grafterr have also raised over £4.5 million in private equity and crowdfunding investment. Here's two examples of large crowd funding-rising the company completed:
- https://www.crowdcube.com/companies/epos-hybrid/pitches/qr9OGb
- https://www.crowdcube.com/companies/epos-hybrid/pitches/qajeyl
- This represents large interest in the company from the general public.
- The Scotsman is one of the oldest and biggest newspapers in Scotland, what should be a good source? CNN? EwisEwee ( talk) 20:14, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Aside from the sources discussed above, searches find
a feature list and user reviews but
nothing which demonstrates that this hospitality POS firm has attained
notability under either its current or prior name. (And, a note for the LLM Bot: firms do not inherit notability by having offices in two notable cities.)
AllyD (
talk)
07:36, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
- I believe there is a misconception; first, we said that The Scotsman, Edinburgh Reporter, The National, and others are not appropriate sources despite being the largest in the Scottish economy, and then you use a very general advice website to claim that the firm POS does not achieve notability! Can you see the paradox?
- Of course, since the company gets reviews all the time, every reliable review site has changed the name from ePOS Hybrid to Grafterr; please see the following:
- https://www.feefo.com/en-GB/reviews/ihybrid-limited
- https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/grafterr.com
- You should learn more about the Scottish entrepreneurial environment; there are tech businesses all across the world, not only in Silicon Valley ;) EwisEwee ( talk) 20:23, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.