The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. The strength of the nomination was insufficient to outweigh the general consensus that the topic's winning of a national competition infers notability- these arguments touched upon
WP:MUSICBIO #9 (or possibly 8- the distinction is slightly fudged in this discussion), as indeed, the only 'delete' !vote acknowledged the possibility if not certainty of.
(non-admin closure) —
fortunavelut luna 11:41, 3 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete for lack of notability.
WP:USUAL may apply, of course, and if they won awards that are judged notable, then you might have a case for inclusion. I mean, 28th in the world at anything is pretty impressive. But
WP:NPRETTYIMPRESSIVE is a redlink, so...
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 19:42, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Responding to the below Keeps... We do have an article for the
British Association of Barbershop Singers, but not one for the award in question. In most cases, if the award is notable enough for an article, then winning the award is enough to confer notability. That's not always the case, and certainly every award (and subject) is different, but that's what I was looking at. And I still don't see sources about this quartet that indicate notability. I mean, the two references are to their scores at competitions - good as far as it goes, but there's no independent sources noting those results, or explaining why they are relevant. I'm not sold on this one.
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 20:12, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Another source has since been added. —
ADavidB 21:36, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
True, but there the subject is shown in a photo, and the only text about the subject is the caption of that photo. It confirms that they won an award, but to say it's about Finest Hour is stretching it somewhat.
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 13:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)reply
The source is about the barbershop genre, and notes Finest Hour's win as a current example. This WP article has expanded further with additional sources and content. —
ADavidB 14:47, 17 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep – The year before their first international competition, they were judged the top quartet in the UK, establishing their notability. —
ADavidB 19:45, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment - Every year since 1974 someone has won the BABS Quartet Championship, and none of them have been considered enough to get a WP page. I know that's
WP:Otherstuffexists but, it is valid here. Winning an annual contest does not make a quartet notable, especially since barbershop quartets are a pretty marginal topic in the first place. My opinion.
‡ Єl Cid, Єl Caɱ̩peadorᐐT₳LKᐬ 19:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Do you know that prior winning quartets have had articles submitted and rejected, or is that only a supposition? I submit that winning a national-level competition does establish a quartet's notability. —
ADavidB 19:53, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Godric on Leave (
talk) 10:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep. If being the 28th best barbershop quartet in the world isn't wikipedia worthy then what is the point of anything
Theodolite (
talk) 02:55, 19 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment – The lead paragraph clearly notes their 2016 win as best quartet in the UK, with a record-high score. Their international ranking is not their notability. —
ADavidB 11:14, 19 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep per above, also national winner of a competition, so to represent is quite a hurdle for participation.
Sadads (
talk) 13:12, 21 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment. Show me one non-music source talking about this group - something not related to or published by groups related to Barbershop Quartets - and I'd bean enthusiastic "Keep". But there is, as yet, nothing to indicate any notability beyond the awards shown, and those awards aren't in themselves enough. One media article along the lines of "Local quartet wins national award" or some such, and I'd be fine. I just don't see that here, unfortunately.
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 15:40, 21 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Lots of opinions here, but I'm seeing a distinct lack of arguments which cite policy. So, relisting this in the hope of that improving.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --
RoySmith(talk) 14:00, 26 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep. I see enough sources to (just) meet
WP:GNG and
WP:NMUSIC guidelines. There is no requirement for any 'non-music source', nor is their getting an award discounted due to the award not having an article. Despite various arguments about their world prominence, that is not relevant, the world number 124,000th quartet has an equal chance of being notable, what matters are
reliable independent sources.
A Guy into Books (
talk) 09:25, 3 September 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. The strength of the nomination was insufficient to outweigh the general consensus that the topic's winning of a national competition infers notability- these arguments touched upon
WP:MUSICBIO #9 (or possibly 8- the distinction is slightly fudged in this discussion), as indeed, the only 'delete' !vote acknowledged the possibility if not certainty of.
(non-admin closure) —
fortunavelut luna 11:41, 3 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete for lack of notability.
WP:USUAL may apply, of course, and if they won awards that are judged notable, then you might have a case for inclusion. I mean, 28th in the world at anything is pretty impressive. But
WP:NPRETTYIMPRESSIVE is a redlink, so...
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 19:42, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Responding to the below Keeps... We do have an article for the
British Association of Barbershop Singers, but not one for the award in question. In most cases, if the award is notable enough for an article, then winning the award is enough to confer notability. That's not always the case, and certainly every award (and subject) is different, but that's what I was looking at. And I still don't see sources about this quartet that indicate notability. I mean, the two references are to their scores at competitions - good as far as it goes, but there's no independent sources noting those results, or explaining why they are relevant. I'm not sold on this one.
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 20:12, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Another source has since been added. —
ADavidB 21:36, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
True, but there the subject is shown in a photo, and the only text about the subject is the caption of that photo. It confirms that they won an award, but to say it's about Finest Hour is stretching it somewhat.
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 13:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)reply
The source is about the barbershop genre, and notes Finest Hour's win as a current example. This WP article has expanded further with additional sources and content. —
ADavidB 14:47, 17 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep – The year before their first international competition, they were judged the top quartet in the UK, establishing their notability. —
ADavidB 19:45, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment - Every year since 1974 someone has won the BABS Quartet Championship, and none of them have been considered enough to get a WP page. I know that's
WP:Otherstuffexists but, it is valid here. Winning an annual contest does not make a quartet notable, especially since barbershop quartets are a pretty marginal topic in the first place. My opinion.
‡ Єl Cid, Єl Caɱ̩peadorᐐT₳LKᐬ 19:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Do you know that prior winning quartets have had articles submitted and rejected, or is that only a supposition? I submit that winning a national-level competition does establish a quartet's notability. —
ADavidB 19:53, 10 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Godric on Leave (
talk) 10:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep. If being the 28th best barbershop quartet in the world isn't wikipedia worthy then what is the point of anything
Theodolite (
talk) 02:55, 19 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment – The lead paragraph clearly notes their 2016 win as best quartet in the UK, with a record-high score. Their international ranking is not their notability. —
ADavidB 11:14, 19 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep per above, also national winner of a competition, so to represent is quite a hurdle for participation.
Sadads (
talk) 13:12, 21 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment. Show me one non-music source talking about this group - something not related to or published by groups related to Barbershop Quartets - and I'd bean enthusiastic "Keep". But there is, as yet, nothing to indicate any notability beyond the awards shown, and those awards aren't in themselves enough. One media article along the lines of "Local quartet wins national award" or some such, and I'd be fine. I just don't see that here, unfortunately.
UltraExactZZSaid~
Did 15:40, 21 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Lots of opinions here, but I'm seeing a distinct lack of arguments which cite policy. So, relisting this in the hope of that improving.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --
RoySmith(talk) 14:00, 26 August 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep. I see enough sources to (just) meet
WP:GNG and
WP:NMUSIC guidelines. There is no requirement for any 'non-music source', nor is their getting an award discounted due to the award not having an article. Despite various arguments about their world prominence, that is not relevant, the world number 124,000th quartet has an equal chance of being notable, what matters are
reliable independent sources.
A Guy into Books (
talk) 09:25, 3 September 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.