The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep.
✗plicit 11:32, 7 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Notability not shown, indicated, no reliable sources. Speedy delete?
BoraVoro (
talk) 10:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep I've added sources and references i think he is definitely notable enough having 5 songs with 1,000,000+ streams on
Spotify and 2 with 5,000,000+.
FFelxii (
talk) 11:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I have seen many other articles do similar things where they link the YouTube page for the song on artists so I thought i was allowed. For example the
Andy Bull page uses YouTube videos as references in the same way sorry for any misunderstanding.
FFelxii (
talk) 13:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Have a read of the link. YouTube sources can be used, but not in the way you did. If Fergus's notability is going to be established then it needs to be done with secondary sources. TarnishedPathtalk 13:51, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
YouTube sources can be used. They can even be used like that, because those links
WP:Verify that he really did sing a song of that name, etc. But a link to a webpage (YouTube or otherwise) that was posted by a person/band/business can never demonstrate
Wikipedia:Notability of that same person/band/business. So while those links were okay, they were not pointful for the purpose of determining whether to keep the article.
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 19:02, 4 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep (weak). The external links added to the article are all a bit problematic in one way or another. Some are lacking in depth, some are interviews (not ideal as a source), some are not quite independent of the subject and the one I'd bet on
[1] is unfortunately paywalled. However, we do have the title "Armidale boy Fergus James to support Ed Sheeran on Australian tour " and the date (2018) which show that James has been on the radar for quite some time. (Also, opening for Ed Sheeran is a big deal). I also found
this which provides somewhat significant coverage.
This and
this lack depth but it's still coverage.
This is a more recent interview. All in all, I think we have (though barely) enough to pass
WP:GNG.
Pichpich (
talk) 18:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Hi, Thank you for providing some sources that can help keep the page.
FFelxii (
talk) 04:56, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep in view of the sources identified above by Pichpich. I haven't done a full search yet but I did find a bio at AllMusic
here which states that his first hit single charted which i'll look into,
Atlantic306 (
talk) 22:17, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep based on sources added.
BoraVoro, did anyone ever tell you about
WP:NEXIST? This is probably not obvious – the
telephone game by which we
oversimplify and overstate the rules to make newbies do what we want with as little effort as possible on our part causes real problems over time – but we don't actually have any guideline or policy that endorses "Notability not shown" as a valid reason for deletion; instead, we have a rule that says that what matters is whether reliable sources are in the real world (libraries, bookstores, the internet) and explicitly not whether those sources are already
WP:Glossary#cited in the article. If a
WP:BEFORE search (which you didn't mention doing, but I hope you did) is not very helpful, then please consider a {{notability}} tag or
WP:BLPPROD instead of an AFD. (I'd have chosen BLPPROD myself.)
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 19:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)reply
very good point, thank you!
BoraVoro (
talk) 07:37, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep I found a charting ref for a single. I don't know if this is what the AllMusic bio's writer referred to.
shaidar cuebiyar (
talk) 04:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment Please don't bomb the article with a dozen Youtube links again. This is not what Wikipedia is for.
Geschichte (
talk) 11:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment More information under his full name/alternative name.
shaidar cuebiyar (
talk) 21:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep.
✗plicit 11:32, 7 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Notability not shown, indicated, no reliable sources. Speedy delete?
BoraVoro (
talk) 10:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep I've added sources and references i think he is definitely notable enough having 5 songs with 1,000,000+ streams on
Spotify and 2 with 5,000,000+.
FFelxii (
talk) 11:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I have seen many other articles do similar things where they link the YouTube page for the song on artists so I thought i was allowed. For example the
Andy Bull page uses YouTube videos as references in the same way sorry for any misunderstanding.
FFelxii (
talk) 13:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Have a read of the link. YouTube sources can be used, but not in the way you did. If Fergus's notability is going to be established then it needs to be done with secondary sources. TarnishedPathtalk 13:51, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
YouTube sources can be used. They can even be used like that, because those links
WP:Verify that he really did sing a song of that name, etc. But a link to a webpage (YouTube or otherwise) that was posted by a person/band/business can never demonstrate
Wikipedia:Notability of that same person/band/business. So while those links were okay, they were not pointful for the purpose of determining whether to keep the article.
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 19:02, 4 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep (weak). The external links added to the article are all a bit problematic in one way or another. Some are lacking in depth, some are interviews (not ideal as a source), some are not quite independent of the subject and the one I'd bet on
[1] is unfortunately paywalled. However, we do have the title "Armidale boy Fergus James to support Ed Sheeran on Australian tour " and the date (2018) which show that James has been on the radar for quite some time. (Also, opening for Ed Sheeran is a big deal). I also found
this which provides somewhat significant coverage.
This and
this lack depth but it's still coverage.
This is a more recent interview. All in all, I think we have (though barely) enough to pass
WP:GNG.
Pichpich (
talk) 18:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Hi, Thank you for providing some sources that can help keep the page.
FFelxii (
talk) 04:56, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep in view of the sources identified above by Pichpich. I haven't done a full search yet but I did find a bio at AllMusic
here which states that his first hit single charted which i'll look into,
Atlantic306 (
talk) 22:17, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep based on sources added.
BoraVoro, did anyone ever tell you about
WP:NEXIST? This is probably not obvious – the
telephone game by which we
oversimplify and overstate the rules to make newbies do what we want with as little effort as possible on our part causes real problems over time – but we don't actually have any guideline or policy that endorses "Notability not shown" as a valid reason for deletion; instead, we have a rule that says that what matters is whether reliable sources are in the real world (libraries, bookstores, the internet) and explicitly not whether those sources are already
WP:Glossary#cited in the article. If a
WP:BEFORE search (which you didn't mention doing, but I hope you did) is not very helpful, then please consider a {{notability}} tag or
WP:BLPPROD instead of an AFD. (I'd have chosen BLPPROD myself.)
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 19:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)reply
very good point, thank you!
BoraVoro (
talk) 07:37, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep I found a charting ref for a single. I don't know if this is what the AllMusic bio's writer referred to.
shaidar cuebiyar (
talk) 04:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment Please don't bomb the article with a dozen Youtube links again. This is not what Wikipedia is for.
Geschichte (
talk) 11:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment More information under his full name/alternative name.
shaidar cuebiyar (
talk) 21:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.