- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. Fenix down ( talk) 08:49, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
FIFA World Cup stadiums
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- FIFA World Cup stadiums ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
We have Category:FIFA World Cup stadiums: what is the purpose of this page. It seems to be no more than an amalgam of the Venues section of each WC article. Kevin McE ( talk) 08:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- First purpose is to give information about choice process and requirements to become FIFA World Cup stadiums. FIFA World Cup hosts article is bit roll model.
Stadium choice process and stadium requirments are very detailed (Capacity, Roof proportion and so on) and changed a lot. I'll add information about process and requiments like belows soon.
| Matches | Stadium capacities |
|---|---|
| Opening match | 80,000 |
| Remaining group stage matches | 40,000 |
| Round of 32 | 40,000 |
| Round of 16 | 40,000 |
| Quarterfinals | 40,000 |
| Semifinals | 60,000 |
| Third place play-off | 40,000 |
| Final | 80,000 |
Second purpose is to give the all time world cup stadium information in one article. I know that We have Category:FIFA World Cup stadiums. But In order to obtain detailed infomation of each world cup stadiums, We have to clik the each World Cup articles or Each World Cup stadium articles. This cause inconvenience and waste times.
Third purpose is to give the statistics information about FIFA World Cup stadiums. For examples, venue with most matches, venue with most final, venue with most attendance record and so on. Footwiks ( talk) 09:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I think that we can expand this article with useful information. Please don't delete and expand this article together.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Footwiks ( talk • contribs)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Korea-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 12:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Argentina-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Chile-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Uruguay-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington, D.C.-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Delete This is just replicated content from the main articles in a type of list form, all the GNG is also replicated from FIFA tournament articles. I see this as an unnecessary content folk. Govvy ( talk) 10:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Meets
WP:NLIST. Each stadium is notable. A list of stadiums used in the world cup is notable. The list size is not unmanageable (around 10? per each 4 years - so some 375 for a century and a half. This is not a fork of
FIFA World Cup (which doesn't have a list of stadiums, nor do I think it should), and is a valid spinoff.
Icewhiz (
talk)
10:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments@
Icewhiz:
WP:REDUNDANTFORK (obviously I need to dumb this down, all information is copied from main World Cup articles like
2018 FIFA World Cup,
2014 FIFA World Cup, etc.)
Govvy (
talk)
10:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments@ Govvy: - a fork of what? A list article is not a fork of a category - you need to show a main space article this is a fork of. Icewhiz ( talk) 10:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments In regards to modified comment - a list compiled from multiple
2018 FIFA World Cup,
2014 FIFA World Cup, . *::Comments(~21 articles in all) - is not a fork.
Icewhiz (
talk)
12:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Reply Erm, it doesn't matter how many articles you take the content from, if you're taking content from one article, or multiple articles, it's still content forking. The point of your article is to keep because of WP:NLIST? This argument is not good enough. You need to be much clear in your argument, all the content and all the citations have been copied from every FIFA World Cup article from each year, this is clearly forking from multiple articles. If a reader can go to any of those articles and view exactly the same content (What stadiums where selected) for that year, Why do we need this list, simply saying this list should be kept on an argument of NLIST is an invalid response. Hence WP:REDUNDANTFORK. I really suggest you review all the available content on wikipedia before you come to a conclusion. Govvy ( talk) 16:16, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments@
Icewhiz:
WP:REDUNDANTFORK (obviously I need to dumb this down, all information is copied from main World Cup articles like
2018 FIFA World Cup,
2014 FIFA World Cup, etc.)
Govvy (
talk)
10:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, but rename to "List of FIFA World Cup stadiums" instead, which makes more sense. DudeTheNinja ( speak to me | spy on me ) 10:27, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep meets WP:NLIST, but I agree that it needs to be renamed because it is nothing more than a list. Tillerh11 ( talk) 11:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, as it provides a good contextualization, but renaming makes sense. / Julle ( talk) 13:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep per
WP:CLN and rename (per DtN). Personally, I think the article is a mess, and could do with the content going into a table, but that's another issue for those who care about such things.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
16:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments @ Lugnuts: What exactly is your argument for keeping the list? @ Julle: Good contextualisation? That's already good enough in each World Cup article, what about whats on the current 2018 FIFA World Cup or even 1966 FIFA World Cup? We already have the same information there. Govvy ( talk) 16:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Have you read
WP:CLN? It's explained in there. As the nom is suggesting it should be deleted because a category exists, I'm referring to a long-standing guide against such a rationale. Thanks.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
16:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- @ Lugnuts: There is no point in reading WP:CLN, The original rationale is floored, however did you look at all the World Cup articles? Has anyone looked at the World Cup articles? Has nobody seen the content rip? Govvy ( talk) 16:38, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Have you read
WP:CLN? It's explained in there. As the nom is suggesting it should be deleted because a category exists, I'm referring to a long-standing guide against such a rationale. Thanks.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
16:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep (but prune) as List of FIFA World Cup stadiums. However, how useful it is to have the pictures of the stadiums here, and make the maps smaller. This would result in a more readable article. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The topic is notable and the article properly sourced, meeting WP:NLIST. The fact that a category overlaps with the article is irrelevant. Per WP:CLN, the category and list exist in synergistic fashion, with the list providing details, pictures, context and sources that are impossible to provide in a category. I'd have no objection to prefixing "List of" to the article title to add some clarity and consistency. Any pruning or editing should be addressed at the article's talk page. Alansohn ( talk) 18:31, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment If it should be kept, it should be organized differently, e.g. one larger list with images etc, that is sortable on capacity, number of matches etc. The maps are irrelevant when it is about all stadiums in history. CRwikiCA talk 02:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep per above passes WP:NLIST. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 17:47, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep per the rationale set out by the creator, and other editors comments. This looks like a good piece of work. However, @ Footwiks: you need to attribute the content that you have copied from all of the other articles. Please do this as soon as possible. Nzd (talk) 22:55, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep as above. Giant Snowman 11:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: meets WP:LISTN; a reasonable cross-categorisation & relevant content. K.e.coffman ( talk) 02:36, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. Fenix down ( talk) 08:49, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
FIFA World Cup stadiums
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- FIFA World Cup stadiums ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
We have Category:FIFA World Cup stadiums: what is the purpose of this page. It seems to be no more than an amalgam of the Venues section of each WC article. Kevin McE ( talk) 08:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- First purpose is to give information about choice process and requirements to become FIFA World Cup stadiums. FIFA World Cup hosts article is bit roll model.
Stadium choice process and stadium requirments are very detailed (Capacity, Roof proportion and so on) and changed a lot. I'll add information about process and requiments like belows soon.
| Matches | Stadium capacities |
|---|---|
| Opening match | 80,000 |
| Remaining group stage matches | 40,000 |
| Round of 32 | 40,000 |
| Round of 16 | 40,000 |
| Quarterfinals | 40,000 |
| Semifinals | 60,000 |
| Third place play-off | 40,000 |
| Final | 80,000 |
Second purpose is to give the all time world cup stadium information in one article. I know that We have Category:FIFA World Cup stadiums. But In order to obtain detailed infomation of each world cup stadiums, We have to clik the each World Cup articles or Each World Cup stadium articles. This cause inconvenience and waste times.
Third purpose is to give the statistics information about FIFA World Cup stadiums. For examples, venue with most matches, venue with most final, venue with most attendance record and so on. Footwiks ( talk) 09:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I think that we can expand this article with useful information. Please don't delete and expand this article together.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Footwiks ( talk • contribs)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Korea-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 12:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Argentina-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Chile-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Uruguay-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington, D.C.-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Delete This is just replicated content from the main articles in a type of list form, all the GNG is also replicated from FIFA tournament articles. I see this as an unnecessary content folk. Govvy ( talk) 10:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Meets
WP:NLIST. Each stadium is notable. A list of stadiums used in the world cup is notable. The list size is not unmanageable (around 10? per each 4 years - so some 375 for a century and a half. This is not a fork of
FIFA World Cup (which doesn't have a list of stadiums, nor do I think it should), and is a valid spinoff.
Icewhiz (
talk)
10:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments@
Icewhiz:
WP:REDUNDANTFORK (obviously I need to dumb this down, all information is copied from main World Cup articles like
2018 FIFA World Cup,
2014 FIFA World Cup, etc.)
Govvy (
talk)
10:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments@ Govvy: - a fork of what? A list article is not a fork of a category - you need to show a main space article this is a fork of. Icewhiz ( talk) 10:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments In regards to modified comment - a list compiled from multiple
2018 FIFA World Cup,
2014 FIFA World Cup, . *::Comments(~21 articles in all) - is not a fork.
Icewhiz (
talk)
12:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Reply Erm, it doesn't matter how many articles you take the content from, if you're taking content from one article, or multiple articles, it's still content forking. The point of your article is to keep because of WP:NLIST? This argument is not good enough. You need to be much clear in your argument, all the content and all the citations have been copied from every FIFA World Cup article from each year, this is clearly forking from multiple articles. If a reader can go to any of those articles and view exactly the same content (What stadiums where selected) for that year, Why do we need this list, simply saying this list should be kept on an argument of NLIST is an invalid response. Hence WP:REDUNDANTFORK. I really suggest you review all the available content on wikipedia before you come to a conclusion. Govvy ( talk) 16:16, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments@
Icewhiz:
WP:REDUNDANTFORK (obviously I need to dumb this down, all information is copied from main World Cup articles like
2018 FIFA World Cup,
2014 FIFA World Cup, etc.)
Govvy (
talk)
10:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, but rename to "List of FIFA World Cup stadiums" instead, which makes more sense. DudeTheNinja ( speak to me | spy on me ) 10:27, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep meets WP:NLIST, but I agree that it needs to be renamed because it is nothing more than a list. Tillerh11 ( talk) 11:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, as it provides a good contextualization, but renaming makes sense. / Julle ( talk) 13:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep per
WP:CLN and rename (per DtN). Personally, I think the article is a mess, and could do with the content going into a table, but that's another issue for those who care about such things.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
16:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comments @ Lugnuts: What exactly is your argument for keeping the list? @ Julle: Good contextualisation? That's already good enough in each World Cup article, what about whats on the current 2018 FIFA World Cup or even 1966 FIFA World Cup? We already have the same information there. Govvy ( talk) 16:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Have you read
WP:CLN? It's explained in there. As the nom is suggesting it should be deleted because a category exists, I'm referring to a long-standing guide against such a rationale. Thanks.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
16:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- @ Lugnuts: There is no point in reading WP:CLN, The original rationale is floored, however did you look at all the World Cup articles? Has anyone looked at the World Cup articles? Has nobody seen the content rip? Govvy ( talk) 16:38, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Have you read
WP:CLN? It's explained in there. As the nom is suggesting it should be deleted because a category exists, I'm referring to a long-standing guide against such a rationale. Thanks.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
16:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep (but prune) as List of FIFA World Cup stadiums. However, how useful it is to have the pictures of the stadiums here, and make the maps smaller. This would result in a more readable article. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The topic is notable and the article properly sourced, meeting WP:NLIST. The fact that a category overlaps with the article is irrelevant. Per WP:CLN, the category and list exist in synergistic fashion, with the list providing details, pictures, context and sources that are impossible to provide in a category. I'd have no objection to prefixing "List of" to the article title to add some clarity and consistency. Any pruning or editing should be addressed at the article's talk page. Alansohn ( talk) 18:31, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment If it should be kept, it should be organized differently, e.g. one larger list with images etc, that is sortable on capacity, number of matches etc. The maps are irrelevant when it is about all stadiums in history. CRwikiCA talk 02:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep per above passes WP:NLIST. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 17:47, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep per the rationale set out by the creator, and other editors comments. This looks like a good piece of work. However, @ Footwiks: you need to attribute the content that you have copied from all of the other articles. Please do this as soon as possible. Nzd (talk) 22:55, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep as above. Giant Snowman 11:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: meets WP:LISTN; a reasonable cross-categorisation & relevant content. K.e.coffman ( talk) 02:36, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.