- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. With no prejudice to eventual renomination given low participation (non-admin closure) RandomCanadian ( talk / contribs) 15:43, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Ernie Smith (Negro leagues)
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- Ernie Smith (Negro leagues) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not notable. I cannot locate stats or a roster spot for this person on seamheads.com or cnlbr.org or baseball-reference.com. (B-R "Bullpen" [an open wiki] has an article created at the same time and same person that created this article.) The given source is an obit [1] that vaguely refers to playing on a Negro league team at some time. The given team ceased play in 1951 when the subject was 20, but as I stated, I cannot find any other source backing this up. (This palyer should not be confused with Ernest Smith (baseball), also a Negro leaguer.) -- Bison X ( talk) 17:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 22:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of West Virginia-related deletion discussions.
Spiderone 22:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete I think we may need to have a discussion on if we should impose a stricter cutoff for Negro league players in light of MLB’s decision to elevated top leagues from 1920-1948. Should all players from post-1948 still be presumed notable, or should they follow a case-by-case basis based on
WP:GNG from other possible claims to fame, baseball or otherwise, which it seems Smith fails? Should these players be removed from the
list of Negro league baseball players? And what of players like Smith, whose main source of having played is from his obituary and an interview he gave in 2009 saying he played in 1949 and 1950? Most of the remaining redlinks on the list of Negro league players pages are guys whose main source of playing existence is a short blurb on the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. Should these museum profiles even matter for guys from this time frame? Smith doesn’t even have that. These players do not and will not, at least any time soon, have confirmed and verifiable stats, won’t have Seamheads or Baseball-Reference profiles, and aren’t in
Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues.
Penale52 (
talk) 15:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Your meta-points are more on a level that would be better addressed at WT:BASEBALL and possibly updating WP:NBASE. If you start a conversation elsewhere, I'll join in there. Rgrds. -- Bison X ( talk) 17:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete I think we may need to have a discussion on if we should impose a stricter cutoff for Negro league players in light of MLB’s decision to elevated top leagues from 1920-1948. Should all players from post-1948 still be presumed notable, or should they follow a case-by-case basis based on
WP:GNG from other possible claims to fame, baseball or otherwise, which it seems Smith fails? Should these players be removed from the
list of Negro league baseball players? And what of players like Smith, whose main source of having played is from his obituary and an interview he gave in 2009 saying he played in 1949 and 1950? Most of the remaining redlinks on the list of Negro league players pages are guys whose main source of playing existence is a short blurb on the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. Should these museum profiles even matter for guys from this time frame? Smith doesn’t even have that. These players do not and will not, at least any time soon, have confirmed and verifiable stats, won’t have Seamheads or Baseball-Reference profiles, and aren’t in
Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues.
Penale52 (
talk) 15:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:41, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please also include me in the discussions, I would strongly encourage to continue this request. Oaktree b ( talk) 14:58, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment We have articles for MLB players that have played in as few as one major league game (which hardly makes them notable in my books, but we keep them here). Unfortunately this article doesn't say in how many games he played, when he played or much of anything. I used to write biographies on the BR Bullpen (I gave up after a site redesign frustrated me), but they have lower notability standards then Wikipedia does. They would allow any minor league player to have an article, which was fine as it allowed anyone to look up a pro baseball player. I'd like to see more Negro League players kept here, but this article as it stands doesn't have much information beyond a casual mention of the player. Oaktree b ( talk) 02:46, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 07:00, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 07:00, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - I agree with Oaktree b and mostly with Penale52. If there were a reliable source that he played in the Negro Leagues prior to 1949 I would have no hesitation about keeping the article. We do have a reliable source that he played in the Negro Leagues but apparently only in the stub period after the time that MLB is recognizing it as a major league. My inclination would be to just apply presumptive notability to all Negro Leaguers, even if they played only in 1949-1950, since there probably few of the latter relative to pre-1949 Negro Leaguers anyway and I am not sure the coverage of Negro Leagues dramatically declined between 1948 and 1949. But since this article has no information about his Negro League career and to the extent there are reliable sources they only relate to the now post-MLB period of the Negro Leagues, I can't object to deletion if others think that is appropriate. Rlendog ( talk) 16:32, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Northern Escapee ( talk) 05:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Northern Escapee ( talk) 05:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HistoricalAccountings ( talk) 01:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HistoricalAccountings ( talk) 01:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. With no prejudice to eventual renomination given low participation (non-admin closure) RandomCanadian ( talk / contribs) 15:43, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Ernie Smith (Negro leagues)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ernie Smith (Negro leagues) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not notable. I cannot locate stats or a roster spot for this person on seamheads.com or cnlbr.org or baseball-reference.com. (B-R "Bullpen" [an open wiki] has an article created at the same time and same person that created this article.) The given source is an obit [1] that vaguely refers to playing on a Negro league team at some time. The given team ceased play in 1951 when the subject was 20, but as I stated, I cannot find any other source backing this up. (This palyer should not be confused with Ernest Smith (baseball), also a Negro leaguer.) -- Bison X ( talk) 17:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 22:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of West Virginia-related deletion discussions.
Spiderone 22:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete I think we may need to have a discussion on if we should impose a stricter cutoff for Negro league players in light of MLB’s decision to elevated top leagues from 1920-1948. Should all players from post-1948 still be presumed notable, or should they follow a case-by-case basis based on
WP:GNG from other possible claims to fame, baseball or otherwise, which it seems Smith fails? Should these players be removed from the
list of Negro league baseball players? And what of players like Smith, whose main source of having played is from his obituary and an interview he gave in 2009 saying he played in 1949 and 1950? Most of the remaining redlinks on the list of Negro league players pages are guys whose main source of playing existence is a short blurb on the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. Should these museum profiles even matter for guys from this time frame? Smith doesn’t even have that. These players do not and will not, at least any time soon, have confirmed and verifiable stats, won’t have Seamheads or Baseball-Reference profiles, and aren’t in
Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues.
Penale52 (
talk) 15:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Your meta-points are more on a level that would be better addressed at WT:BASEBALL and possibly updating WP:NBASE. If you start a conversation elsewhere, I'll join in there. Rgrds. -- Bison X ( talk) 17:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete I think we may need to have a discussion on if we should impose a stricter cutoff for Negro league players in light of MLB’s decision to elevated top leagues from 1920-1948. Should all players from post-1948 still be presumed notable, or should they follow a case-by-case basis based on
WP:GNG from other possible claims to fame, baseball or otherwise, which it seems Smith fails? Should these players be removed from the
list of Negro league baseball players? And what of players like Smith, whose main source of having played is from his obituary and an interview he gave in 2009 saying he played in 1949 and 1950? Most of the remaining redlinks on the list of Negro league players pages are guys whose main source of playing existence is a short blurb on the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. Should these museum profiles even matter for guys from this time frame? Smith doesn’t even have that. These players do not and will not, at least any time soon, have confirmed and verifiable stats, won’t have Seamheads or Baseball-Reference profiles, and aren’t in
Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues.
Penale52 (
talk) 15:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:41, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please also include me in the discussions, I would strongly encourage to continue this request. Oaktree b ( talk) 14:58, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment We have articles for MLB players that have played in as few as one major league game (which hardly makes them notable in my books, but we keep them here). Unfortunately this article doesn't say in how many games he played, when he played or much of anything. I used to write biographies on the BR Bullpen (I gave up after a site redesign frustrated me), but they have lower notability standards then Wikipedia does. They would allow any minor league player to have an article, which was fine as it allowed anyone to look up a pro baseball player. I'd like to see more Negro League players kept here, but this article as it stands doesn't have much information beyond a casual mention of the player. Oaktree b ( talk) 02:46, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 07:00, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 07:00, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - I agree with Oaktree b and mostly with Penale52. If there were a reliable source that he played in the Negro Leagues prior to 1949 I would have no hesitation about keeping the article. We do have a reliable source that he played in the Negro Leagues but apparently only in the stub period after the time that MLB is recognizing it as a major league. My inclination would be to just apply presumptive notability to all Negro Leaguers, even if they played only in 1949-1950, since there probably few of the latter relative to pre-1949 Negro Leaguers anyway and I am not sure the coverage of Negro Leagues dramatically declined between 1948 and 1949. But since this article has no information about his Negro League career and to the extent there are reliable sources they only relate to the now post-MLB period of the Negro Leagues, I can't object to deletion if others think that is appropriate. Rlendog ( talk) 16:32, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Northern Escapee ( talk) 05:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Northern Escapee ( talk) 05:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HistoricalAccountings ( talk) 01:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HistoricalAccountings ( talk) 01:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.