- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Note to kyykaarme - I'm happy to userfy this for you if you decide you want to work on it. Mojo Hand ( talk) 14:31, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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NN band, fails the GNG and WP:BAND. No significant coverage in reliable sources found beyond namedrops. Sources turn up the usual suspects: YouTube, social media, discogs, rateyourmusic, iTunes, Allmusic (but without a staff-written bio). Notability tagged for over a decade, and no reliable sourcing for fourteen years. Enough is enough. Ravenswing 01:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 01:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 01:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete The band fails
WP:GNG
and WP:BAND. I searched Google web, news and scholarly as well as JSTOR and WP articles in other languages, but could not find a reliable source or significant coverage. Z1720 ( talk) 02:16, 7 August 2020 (UTC)- One of their albums was on the
official Finnish album list, so it ticks that box of
WP:BAND at least. -
kyykaarme (
talk)
06:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- This link proves C2 of WP:BAND. However, the band still struggles with notability as their only entry on the Finnish music charts is an album that reached #29 in 2006. Problems with WP:GNG remain because significant coverage of this band in independent sources has not been provided at the time this comment is posted. WP:SNG says "in cases where GNG has not been met and a subject's claim to meeting an SNG is weak or subjective, the article may still be deleted or merged". I think this is a time when GNG should take precedence over SNG. If additional sources are provided that show significant coverage, I would reconsider my vote. Z1720 ( talk) 14:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- One of their albums was on the
official Finnish album list, so it ticks that box of
WP:BAND at least. -
kyykaarme (
talk)
06:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - Enough is enough. Well said. I am sick of all of these non-notable bands. And who knows how many are still left since WP is full of bands. I couldn't find anything besides all of these unreliable sources Ravenswing said. (I know Allmusic is reliable, but only if the page of the artist contains a biography. If it does not, it is not reliable, just like this time.) The fact that one of their albums reached the official Finnish album list is great, but I doubt that will be enough to save the article. Sources are scant.
GhostDestroyer100 (
talk)
08:23, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- I understand that it's frustrating to see a lot of poorly sourced articles, but it's not the fault of this or any other band, and all articles should be assessed on their own merit. Also, Google search results are affected by the searcher's own location. If I turn on VPN and choose a US location, I get very different results as what I get when I use my own (Finnish) location. You said you could only find unreliable sources, but I found three album reviews in a major Finnish music magazine, and other reliable sources as well. The band was created in pre-Wikipedia (and largely even pre-internet) era, and they stopped touring more than 10 years ago, so it can be difficult to find sources online from such long time ago, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there has been no coverage in reliable sources. - kyykaarme ( talk) 09:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @ Kyykaarme:, if you can post those links so we can peek at them, I'm happy to withdraw the nomination if they're satisfactory. And it could be worse, GhostDestroyer100 -- you're seeing the AfDs that Boleyn and I've been putting up, but what you're not seeing is the tidal wave of NN albums posted for barely notable bands, likewise tagged for many years, likewise unsourced. Those at least can be redirected to the band articles. (And hmm. I have a VPN that has dozens of nodes around the world, one in Finland. Might try that myself.) Ravenswing 19:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - I am not blaming this or any other band. I just think it is unacceptable that so many bands with unreliable sources or completely unsourced, manage to stay here. This goes directly against Wikipedia's guidelines imo, and Wikipedia's main principle is to have reliable sources. No reliable sources - no article. With this being said there are so many non-notable bands and I can't believe they manage to stay here. But I am not blaming the band itself for that, that would be stupid. I get it: there may have been reliable sources, in print media (and if this band is from a pre-Internet/pre-WP era, I have no doubts they are covered in print sources, but I couldn't find them). Anyways I can't track down print sources, I don't know how to do that, but those three album reviews sound awesome. Can you please present them? I then put them to the article and then I change my opinion. GhostDestroyer100 ( talk) 17:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I have also seen lots and lots of NN albums by NN (or barely notable) bands which also managed to stay here for far too long. That's a shame as well. There is also the following case: the band is notable but the album is not. I have seen quite a lot of that too. GhostDestroyer100 ( talk) 11:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Note to kyykaarme - I'm happy to userfy this for you if you decide you want to work on it. Mojo Hand ( talk) 14:31, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Embraze ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
NN band, fails the GNG and WP:BAND. No significant coverage in reliable sources found beyond namedrops. Sources turn up the usual suspects: YouTube, social media, discogs, rateyourmusic, iTunes, Allmusic (but without a staff-written bio). Notability tagged for over a decade, and no reliable sourcing for fourteen years. Enough is enough. Ravenswing 01:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 01:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 01:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete The band fails
WP:GNG
and WP:BAND. I searched Google web, news and scholarly as well as JSTOR and WP articles in other languages, but could not find a reliable source or significant coverage. Z1720 ( talk) 02:16, 7 August 2020 (UTC)- One of their albums was on the
official Finnish album list, so it ticks that box of
WP:BAND at least. -
kyykaarme (
talk)
06:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- This link proves C2 of WP:BAND. However, the band still struggles with notability as their only entry on the Finnish music charts is an album that reached #29 in 2006. Problems with WP:GNG remain because significant coverage of this band in independent sources has not been provided at the time this comment is posted. WP:SNG says "in cases where GNG has not been met and a subject's claim to meeting an SNG is weak or subjective, the article may still be deleted or merged". I think this is a time when GNG should take precedence over SNG. If additional sources are provided that show significant coverage, I would reconsider my vote. Z1720 ( talk) 14:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- One of their albums was on the
official Finnish album list, so it ticks that box of
WP:BAND at least. -
kyykaarme (
talk)
06:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - Enough is enough. Well said. I am sick of all of these non-notable bands. And who knows how many are still left since WP is full of bands. I couldn't find anything besides all of these unreliable sources Ravenswing said. (I know Allmusic is reliable, but only if the page of the artist contains a biography. If it does not, it is not reliable, just like this time.) The fact that one of their albums reached the official Finnish album list is great, but I doubt that will be enough to save the article. Sources are scant.
GhostDestroyer100 (
talk)
08:23, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- I understand that it's frustrating to see a lot of poorly sourced articles, but it's not the fault of this or any other band, and all articles should be assessed on their own merit. Also, Google search results are affected by the searcher's own location. If I turn on VPN and choose a US location, I get very different results as what I get when I use my own (Finnish) location. You said you could only find unreliable sources, but I found three album reviews in a major Finnish music magazine, and other reliable sources as well. The band was created in pre-Wikipedia (and largely even pre-internet) era, and they stopped touring more than 10 years ago, so it can be difficult to find sources online from such long time ago, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there has been no coverage in reliable sources. - kyykaarme ( talk) 09:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @ Kyykaarme:, if you can post those links so we can peek at them, I'm happy to withdraw the nomination if they're satisfactory. And it could be worse, GhostDestroyer100 -- you're seeing the AfDs that Boleyn and I've been putting up, but what you're not seeing is the tidal wave of NN albums posted for barely notable bands, likewise tagged for many years, likewise unsourced. Those at least can be redirected to the band articles. (And hmm. I have a VPN that has dozens of nodes around the world, one in Finland. Might try that myself.) Ravenswing 19:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - I am not blaming this or any other band. I just think it is unacceptable that so many bands with unreliable sources or completely unsourced, manage to stay here. This goes directly against Wikipedia's guidelines imo, and Wikipedia's main principle is to have reliable sources. No reliable sources - no article. With this being said there are so many non-notable bands and I can't believe they manage to stay here. But I am not blaming the band itself for that, that would be stupid. I get it: there may have been reliable sources, in print media (and if this band is from a pre-Internet/pre-WP era, I have no doubts they are covered in print sources, but I couldn't find them). Anyways I can't track down print sources, I don't know how to do that, but those three album reviews sound awesome. Can you please present them? I then put them to the article and then I change my opinion. GhostDestroyer100 ( talk) 17:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I have also seen lots and lots of NN albums by NN (or barely notable) bands which also managed to stay here for far too long. That's a shame as well. There is also the following case: the band is notable but the album is not. I have seen quite a lot of that too. GhostDestroyer100 ( talk) 11:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.