- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013. — Darkwind ( talk) 21:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Eliias
- Eliias ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not notable musician that fails WP:MUSIC. Did not win the contest nor had a charting single. No page to be found on the Swedish wiki. Karst ( talk) 18:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
Keep:. Per WP:BIO1E, the artist competed in the finals a major Eurovision-related event. Also WP:MUSIC states "a musician may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria". It meets criterion 9: "has won or placed in a major music competition". His song " Det är dit vi ska" placed 9th in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2003. And having no page on Swedish wiki doesn't even warrant AfD rationale. The fact that English wiki is on-the-ball much quicker than our Swedish wiki-cousins, holds no merit. Wes Mouse | T@lk 20:43, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- I believe
WP:MUSIC critierion #9 ("Has won or placed in a major music competition") is using Merriam-Webster's
definition of "place": "second place at the finish". Otherwise wouldn't every contestant satisfy the criterion? If the drafters intended to include everyone, surely they would have simply written "Has competed in a major music competition". Would you clarify and elaborate on how you feel
WP:BIO1E fits into the discussion?
Worldbruce (
talk) 07:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- If criterion #9 was being specific to Merriam-Webster's definition of "place", then it would note that in its criterion annotation. As it does not, then a "place" can be anywhere between first and last. As for BIO1E, this has been raised over the years at WikiProject Eurovision, first in June 2012 and again in September 2012. The singer took part in a national selection event in order to represent his country at Junior Eurovision, in which he came 1st, for which he then went on to participate and placed 9th. Therefore he took part in more than one event. WP:BLP1E goes on to note that three conditions need to be met in order to avoid the creation of a BLP article. All three are not met, as their are reliable sources to cover the person in more than one event. He may be low-profile across some parts of Europe, but he has released other songs which definitely does not make him low-profile - although that could be questionable to some. The third point notes if the event is not significant or the individual's role was not substantial or well documented. The can be dismissed easily. The event was significant and broadcast to millions across the globe (as Eurovision Contest's have been nicknamed the "Olympics of the Music World"), and there are sources documenting the person. Therefore an article is warranted in accordance to BLP1E. Wes Mouse | T@lk 12:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I believe
WP:MUSIC critierion #9 ("Has won or placed in a major music competition") is using Merriam-Webster's
definition of "place": "second place at the finish". Otherwise wouldn't every contestant satisfy the criterion? If the drafters intended to include everyone, surely they would have simply written "Has competed in a major music competition". Would you clarify and elaborate on how you feel
WP:BIO1E fits into the discussion?
Worldbruce (
talk) 07:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I will also note that despite the fact the article was created by
RebeccaTheAwesomeXD (
talk ·
contribs), who has recently been indef blocked for violating her
WP:NEWBLPBAN, this article was created before such ban was imposed. And as much as the user was starting to become an uncontrollable pain in the ass, I do feel it is unfair to be targeting her works prior to such ban having been imposed on her.
Wes Mouse |
T@lk 12:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Just to clarify, I was not aware of the issues around RebeccaTheAwesomeXD ( talk · contribs) neither did it have anything to do with the AfD. Karst ( talk) 18:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I will also note that despite the fact the article was created by
RebeccaTheAwesomeXD (
talk ·
contribs), who has recently been indef blocked for violating her
WP:NEWBLPBAN, this article was created before such ban was imposed. And as much as the user was starting to become an uncontrollable pain in the ass, I do feel it is unfair to be targeting her works prior to such ban having been imposed on her.
Wes Mouse |
T@lk 12:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
I would like to clarify something actually, as I am starting to be torn between "keep" and "merge". Its something that would impact a large portion of similar articles regarding participants for Junior Eurovision contests. I had raised the matter that these type of bios may be overzealous in creation quite some time ago via Project Eurovision talk pages. And to be frank, I was told to "back off" as these complied with BIO1E and BLP1E. But even to this day, I'm still not 100% convinced, and feel such information on the artist(s) would be more beneficial on articles such as (in this case) Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2003. There are not that many annual pages for countries that have taken part, and bio information may be more suitable to articles like that, so that they can be further developed to incorporate about how the singer was chosen, background on the singer (which in some cases are hard to find), and how they performed at the contest etc. Would that methodology be a better solution? Wes Mouse | T@lk 18:31, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- If the contest page by itself has merit then by all means merge and request a closure of the AfD.
Karst (
talk) 19:17, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- @ Karst: I'm not just on about looking into merging Ellias into a more meriting JESC article; but also the other 69 bio articles that may benefit from a similar process; and also noting at WP:ESC that it would be preferable in future cases to redirect Junior Eurovision bios into the corresponding country article instead. But like I said, we would need someone to put pressure on WikiProject Eurovision to make sure they know not to be so eager in creating article for junior stars. They won't just take my sole word for it. Wes Mouse | T@lk 19:47, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- If the contest page by itself has merit then by all means merge and request a closure of the AfD.
Karst (
talk) 19:17, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- After some considerable though, I have struck out my original vote! and changing it to speedy merge with Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013. I would also like to suggest that the same merging procedure be carried out for all of the other Junior Eurovision bios who did not win the contest, to be merged into their respective "[Country]" in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest "[20xx]" articles, and that a notice be issued at WT:ESC to remind project members not to create a JESC bio until the winner is known and that all policies are taken into account. Wes Mouse | T@lk 16:43, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- Strong keep participating in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest should be enough. J 1982 ( talk) 20:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:28, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- The arguments outlined above indicate that a merge would be preferable. Karst ( talk) 10:59, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:28, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- keep - Swedens representative at JESC 2011. He has also continued to release a new music single. per WP:GNG.-- BabbaQ ( talk) 21:22, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- The page speaks of new music with no references to any releases. If you know of any, please add them. Karst ( talk) 10:59, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
- Merge - the artist seems to be notable really only for participating in the Junior Eurovision contest; despite claims to the contrary, there do not appear to be new releases, and any significant content can be easily merged into Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013. Inks.LWC ( talk) 22:20, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Merge to the country page as described above, as the contest participation at this point is the only claim to notability. I'd advocate the same for the other bio pages in cases in which the artist has not achieved independent notability. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 19:34, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013. — Darkwind ( talk) 21:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Eliias
- Eliias ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not notable musician that fails WP:MUSIC. Did not win the contest nor had a charting single. No page to be found on the Swedish wiki. Karst ( talk) 18:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
Keep:. Per WP:BIO1E, the artist competed in the finals a major Eurovision-related event. Also WP:MUSIC states "a musician may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria". It meets criterion 9: "has won or placed in a major music competition". His song " Det är dit vi ska" placed 9th in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2003. And having no page on Swedish wiki doesn't even warrant AfD rationale. The fact that English wiki is on-the-ball much quicker than our Swedish wiki-cousins, holds no merit. Wes Mouse | T@lk 20:43, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- I believe
WP:MUSIC critierion #9 ("Has won or placed in a major music competition") is using Merriam-Webster's
definition of "place": "second place at the finish". Otherwise wouldn't every contestant satisfy the criterion? If the drafters intended to include everyone, surely they would have simply written "Has competed in a major music competition". Would you clarify and elaborate on how you feel
WP:BIO1E fits into the discussion?
Worldbruce (
talk) 07:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- If criterion #9 was being specific to Merriam-Webster's definition of "place", then it would note that in its criterion annotation. As it does not, then a "place" can be anywhere between first and last. As for BIO1E, this has been raised over the years at WikiProject Eurovision, first in June 2012 and again in September 2012. The singer took part in a national selection event in order to represent his country at Junior Eurovision, in which he came 1st, for which he then went on to participate and placed 9th. Therefore he took part in more than one event. WP:BLP1E goes on to note that three conditions need to be met in order to avoid the creation of a BLP article. All three are not met, as their are reliable sources to cover the person in more than one event. He may be low-profile across some parts of Europe, but he has released other songs which definitely does not make him low-profile - although that could be questionable to some. The third point notes if the event is not significant or the individual's role was not substantial or well documented. The can be dismissed easily. The event was significant and broadcast to millions across the globe (as Eurovision Contest's have been nicknamed the "Olympics of the Music World"), and there are sources documenting the person. Therefore an article is warranted in accordance to BLP1E. Wes Mouse | T@lk 12:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I believe
WP:MUSIC critierion #9 ("Has won or placed in a major music competition") is using Merriam-Webster's
definition of "place": "second place at the finish". Otherwise wouldn't every contestant satisfy the criterion? If the drafters intended to include everyone, surely they would have simply written "Has competed in a major music competition". Would you clarify and elaborate on how you feel
WP:BIO1E fits into the discussion?
Worldbruce (
talk) 07:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I will also note that despite the fact the article was created by
RebeccaTheAwesomeXD (
talk ·
contribs), who has recently been indef blocked for violating her
WP:NEWBLPBAN, this article was created before such ban was imposed. And as much as the user was starting to become an uncontrollable pain in the ass, I do feel it is unfair to be targeting her works prior to such ban having been imposed on her.
Wes Mouse |
T@lk 12:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Just to clarify, I was not aware of the issues around RebeccaTheAwesomeXD ( talk · contribs) neither did it have anything to do with the AfD. Karst ( talk) 18:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I will also note that despite the fact the article was created by
RebeccaTheAwesomeXD (
talk ·
contribs), who has recently been indef blocked for violating her
WP:NEWBLPBAN, this article was created before such ban was imposed. And as much as the user was starting to become an uncontrollable pain in the ass, I do feel it is unfair to be targeting her works prior to such ban having been imposed on her.
Wes Mouse |
T@lk 12:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
I would like to clarify something actually, as I am starting to be torn between "keep" and "merge". Its something that would impact a large portion of similar articles regarding participants for Junior Eurovision contests. I had raised the matter that these type of bios may be overzealous in creation quite some time ago via Project Eurovision talk pages. And to be frank, I was told to "back off" as these complied with BIO1E and BLP1E. But even to this day, I'm still not 100% convinced, and feel such information on the artist(s) would be more beneficial on articles such as (in this case) Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2003. There are not that many annual pages for countries that have taken part, and bio information may be more suitable to articles like that, so that they can be further developed to incorporate about how the singer was chosen, background on the singer (which in some cases are hard to find), and how they performed at the contest etc. Would that methodology be a better solution? Wes Mouse | T@lk 18:31, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- If the contest page by itself has merit then by all means merge and request a closure of the AfD.
Karst (
talk) 19:17, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- @ Karst: I'm not just on about looking into merging Ellias into a more meriting JESC article; but also the other 69 bio articles that may benefit from a similar process; and also noting at WP:ESC that it would be preferable in future cases to redirect Junior Eurovision bios into the corresponding country article instead. But like I said, we would need someone to put pressure on WikiProject Eurovision to make sure they know not to be so eager in creating article for junior stars. They won't just take my sole word for it. Wes Mouse | T@lk 19:47, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- If the contest page by itself has merit then by all means merge and request a closure of the AfD.
Karst (
talk) 19:17, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- After some considerable though, I have struck out my original vote! and changing it to speedy merge with Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013. I would also like to suggest that the same merging procedure be carried out for all of the other Junior Eurovision bios who did not win the contest, to be merged into their respective "[Country]" in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest "[20xx]" articles, and that a notice be issued at WT:ESC to remind project members not to create a JESC bio until the winner is known and that all policies are taken into account. Wes Mouse | T@lk 16:43, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- Strong keep participating in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest should be enough. J 1982 ( talk) 20:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:28, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- The arguments outlined above indicate that a merge would be preferable. Karst ( talk) 10:59, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:28, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- keep - Swedens representative at JESC 2011. He has also continued to release a new music single. per WP:GNG.-- BabbaQ ( talk) 21:22, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
- The page speaks of new music with no references to any releases. If you know of any, please add them. Karst ( talk) 10:59, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
- Merge - the artist seems to be notable really only for participating in the Junior Eurovision contest; despite claims to the contrary, there do not appear to be new releases, and any significant content can be easily merged into Sweden in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013. Inks.LWC ( talk) 22:20, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Merge to the country page as described above, as the contest participation at this point is the only claim to notability. I'd advocate the same for the other bio pages in cases in which the artist has not achieved independent notability. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 19:34, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.