The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is clear. BD2412 T 02:07, 23 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Dnash (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Non-notable musician and make-up artist. No independent sources in the article, and a search for references elsewhere turns up only a bit of local coverage on her fang business--nothing about her music career and not nearly enough to satisfy WP:GNG. Article has been periodically edited by the subject. -- Finngall ^talk 03:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• Comment - hi there. dnash here. so it appears this page was nominated for deletion by somebody who got into a row with me on a comment section who claimed i was making things up about myself. i am not. the page was created in 2006 by my partner at the time, and had more links on it than appear now, but some of those pages or entries that were linked must have been deleted over time. they were not under my purview. also, i made an attempt several years ago to get in and make edits myself, but somehow my account was unable to MAKE any edits so i left it alone. wikipedia is not the end all for me, and i have plenty of references out there elsewhere on the web that wikipedia can be said to hold the least amount of information that can be found about me. my business, Teeth By Dnash, has been in service since 1995, and i have been playing drums professionally since 1980. i've produced many people, played on many records, done teeth for film, stage, and the general public.... all manner of things that i have never bothered to populate my wiki page with. as i said, when i tried to get in a few years ago i was unsuccessful. ... today, however, i was, and was happy to change the pronouns used in reference to me and the picture as i had transitioned 7 years ago, and realized after i told this individual to google me that those would be the first thing to potentially pop up on google. in the interests of saving myself a bit of embarrassment, i made those changes. however, everything else on the page has stood for years. it's not my responsibility for others to contribute to my page, though a couple of the references there were placed by others, but i had every intention of adding more content as everything that had existed prior to 2017 had been written in 2006. and, as i said, when i tried to get in several years ago to change pronouns, etc, i was unable to. ... anyway, it's not up to me whether this page is deleted or not. some higher power is. all of this started, however, because somebody decided to question my existence in the real world, and my presence is very well established in other places than here. if this page goes away, there's still www.dnash.com, www.teethbydnash.com, my record credits, my film credits, my imdb page, my social media, and many other places that hold record of me. it would be a shame to go, but bigger fish than i have been fried by cancel culture. ... meanwhile, while i'm in here, i guess i should add some relevant links and the like, eh? too bad this is what precipitated that. class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tbdnash

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Lightburst ( talk) 04:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Lightburst ( talk) 04:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete The topic of the article lacks the notability required for an article. Plus, the article was created and been edited by someone with a clear COI. Also, Wikipedia isn't an encyclopedia about everything and there are rules to what gets included. Some things have rules and "Cancel culture" has nothing to do with it. That's just life, get over it. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 07:01, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete promotional (auto)biography with no convincing evidence of notability per WP:GNG. Guy ( help!) 09:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Comment @ Tbdnash: For the record, I had never heard of you until you requested the restoration of the draft article about your business over at WP:REFUND. As is my habit when I see efforts at self-promotion (which is not what Wikipedia is for) or other potential conflicts of interest, I checked your other edits and found the other article about you. My nominating it for deletion here is not about "canceling", or about any comments section anywhere (of which I know nothing and care even less), any doubt about the veracity of the information therein, or any value judgment about you personally. It is about whether there has been enough coverage of you and/or your work in independent, reliable sources to meet Wikipedia's standards for biographical articles. I found that Miami Herald article (which you have since added, thank you), a few blog posts, and little else. Social media is not reliable because anyone can post anything about anyone without any verifiability. IMDb is not reliable because the information therein can be edited by anyone just as it can here. If better sources can be found, that's great, let's get them in there and reevaluate. Thanks for listening. -- Finngall ^talk 15:10, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom. Clearly does not meet WP:GNG, entirely self-promotional and largely written by the person themselves. W C M _email 16:29, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Comment Tbdnash This article was not nominated for deletion because somebody decided to question my existence in the real world but rather because someone questioned whether you fit Wikipedia's specialized definition of " notability". There are literally billions of people who exist in the real world, but do not quality for articles on Wikipedia -- I am one of them. If you wish to affect this decision, you could point to examples of independent and reliable sources that have published writing about you in some detail. This means not things you have written, not fan pages, nor writings by your friends and family, nor by your business associates, nor directory entries, or one or two sentence passing mentions in pieces about something else. If several such pieces can be cited, the article would be likely to be retained. Otherwise, quite likely it will be deleted. So far no one has found and presented such sources. If you truly don't care, of course, you need not do anything. DES ^(talk) _{DESiegel Contribs} 16:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Note The articel currently says: Her single "You Can't Be" is featured on the soundtrack of the 2007 movie release, Fingerprints, This is uncited at the moment, but if it is accurate, i think this fulfills WP:NMUSIC mpoint 10, which is: Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. If this claim can be sourced, the article should be Kept. DES ^(talk) _{DESiegel Contribs} 17:05, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply

So far not finding sourcing from anywhere other than IMDb. -- Finngall ^talk 17:19, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete clearly not notable, person attempting to have an WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY here. –  Muboshgu ( talk) 18:22, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete Fails WP:GNG. KidAd ( 🗣️🗣🗣) 18:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• Note dnash here again. so, i've read the notes here as well as familiarized myself better with the rules regarding wiki entries. i see a lot of good point here, but i will add a couple more of my own.

1. i have had very little interaction with wikipedia. as i stated before, the page was originally published by my partner almost 15 years ago because they suggested i have one when they realized i didn't. the few times i have edited anything on it, i used the same login they had used. i have NO idea how the page works, nor a full grasp on its rules of etiquette, but i had to jump into it running. i have become more acquainted with them over the past 24 hours.

2. i completely understand the reasons why "self editing" is discouraged. the conflict of interest issue is certainly valid, and in the case of my edits, i have retained a sense of neutrality. the only references i see on the page that denote a "lack of objectivity" are the description of my music "lacking focus" which is something i've been told by countless music industry folks due to the diversity of my creations, and a line regarding my fang work and its level of respect in the vampire community which seems to have been edited out. all fair enough.

3. i have been cited by other sources which appear to no longer exist. as i said before, i'm not responsible for other people's entries, but obviously if they disappear, so does the citation.

4. i transitioned gender in 2013. i had tried several times, unsuccessfully, to update the picture of me and my pronouns to accurately reflect me today. i don't know WHY i was unable to do so, but none of the changes took, and i could not find any answers. at that time, i had also tried to start a page for my business which has been in operation since 1995, and is a very well known entity in the vampire and cosplay communities. however, that too was unsuccessful. ... up till that point, i had donated financially every year to Wikipedia, but after that i ceased to do so. i also wrote a letter explaining why, and how not allowing me to change those particulars was, in essence, a form of dead naming. picturing. whatever, lol. i didn't change my name when i transitioned because it's been my professional name since i was a teen and is well know in my industry.

4. before last night, this page had not been nominated for deletion. it only became so after i told somebody on a comment section who had accused me of being an anonymous troll to google me. i know that because i visited it realizing that if they or anybody else were to google me, it was going to have my old picture and pronouns displayed loud and proud. as said above, to avoid embarrassment, i tried logging in and was actually successful to FINALLY change those things. the person did in fact visit this wiki, and made some unflattering comments about me back in the comment section. no harm or foul on that one because it's a comment section and we all know how those work, but i cannot to believe there is no connection between the two.

5. i am currently working with the people on the other end of the citations to make sure they are correctly attributing me, as well as compiling further citations, but due to the concern of "self editing", i'm not sure how to proceed with that. regarding my musical contribution in the movie "Fingerprints", they don't have me listed on their IMDB, but my song is featured about 4 minutes into the movie, and i am fully credited in the end credits. none of the other individual artists were listed on the IMDB either, only the music supervisors.

6. this is not about self promotion, regardless of any accusation to the contrary. nobody comes to me for my work because of my wiki. rather, i'm at the top of virtually every search platform for my craft in fang making. i don't have to advertise because, frankly, i'm non-stop busy, and i don't see the need to fix what's not broken. i am blessed as an artist to survive comfortably on my art, and not have to rely on more conventional sources. while music is my true passion and occupation, as a life long session and performance artist for hire in addition to producer and recording engineer, i would agree that none of that lifts ne to the bar of "notable" in that regard. yet. i do, in fact, have an album ready to be released this fall, and who's to say that won't make a dent. however, in the subculture i service with my fang work, i am beyond notable. it just so happens that most of that culture avoids the mainstream at all cost, so it's no wonder there isn't more "widespread" acclaim out there. i have plenty where i need it.

7. as a final point, i will argue once again that this appears very much to have been a targeted deletion. had the issue arisen BEFORE i suggested the comment section individual google me, i wouldn't have any reason to suspect that. however, the timing of this is so directly tied to that event, and the comments that followed, that it is impossible to believe that is not the case. in regards to my business page, my attempts to establish that page failed several years ago, and i abandoned my effort mid process, so i am not at all surprised that was deleted. this page, however, is not the case. it has stood, relatively unmolested for almost a decade and a half. a sudden move to delete it demands a level of suspicion, certainly in timing if not in context of its problems. ... that being said, i can fully appreciate the rules and lack of significant enough citations on the page to be willing to bring the page into compliance and have others help me in the process. just because i'm not a household name doesn't mean i'm not notable. few people know the people behind many inventions or movements before they do their own research. Wikipedia is but a part of that, and my inclusion here is not unwarranted, even if the manner in which i was has some rough edges. i'm certainly willing to smooth them out, and i appreciate the suggestions form those above as to how to go about it.

thanks for reading :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tbdnash ( talk • contribs) 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• Delete - Some comments on the above discussion... This may or may not be a targeted deletion nomination if Dnash and the nominator got into a dispute, but even so, the voters are not part of any such dispute and have voted based on evidence of notability. For the musical aspects of their career, Dnash could be listed as a producer for The Screw-Ups if that band ever qualifies for a Wikipedia article, and Dnash could be listed as one contributor to the Fingerprints soundtrack. However, neither of those are enough evidence of notability for a musician individually. Meanwhile, if Teeth By Dnash has been covered in the media, there could be an article on the company that would then have to qualify for notability for companies, but that appears to be a non-starter too. Those are possibilities, but there is not enough evidence that Dnash qualifies for an individual article here. And drop the conspiracy theories about Cancel Culture and the like. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 03:21, 16 July 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.