The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Does not meet
WP:NCOLLATH or
WP:NGRIDIRON. The extent of his professional football career was a tryout with the
Jacksonville Jaguars[1]. In college, he did not win any national awards or attract significant, non-trivial national media coverage as a player.
Keep. It is long established that
WP:NCOLLATH is an inclusionary standard and that college players who satisfy
WP:GNG may also be included. Saint Juste was one of the leading rushers in college football's Division I FBS with > 1,500 yards in 2017. He received coverage in multiple reliable sources and thus passes under GNG. Regardless of whether he makes it in the NFL, he has clear notability from his college career.
Cbl62 (
talk)
18:33, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The stories about his verbal commitment from high school and making the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl are
WP:ROUTINE news coverage for many high school/college football players, many of whom do not meet Wikipedia notability standards. Also, being the MVP of a Division I team is not a sign of notability. Some of those stories (like the Western Carolina one) concern the team more than just Saint Juste.
Arbor to SJ (
talk)
20:46, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
I believe that you will find that many of those examples are actually
WP:NOTROUTINE. Sure, some are by nature, but others provide more detail than we find for the typical college athlete and far surpasses the standards set in
WP:ROUTINE for sports of "sports scores" -- further,
WP:ROUTINE references specifically the notability of events and not people.--
Paul McDonald (
talk)
20:57, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
While many of the articles of the 1,000+ articles I found are routine (e.g., passing mentions in game coverage or mere transactional announcements), many others represent significant coverage with details of Saint Juste's life and accomplishments. The 13 items selected above are but a few of the examples of significant coverage. The essential truth, I suspect, is that any running back who ranks among the top 10 rushers (among several hundred running backs in Division I FBS) in a given year will be the subject of significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources. There are plenty of border-line cases where notability is doubtful, but this is not one of them.
Cbl62 (
talk)
21:22, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
My concern with the selection of articles above is that the articles which demonstrate
WP:SIGCOV are all local sources, the ones that are national sources are routine reporting of upcoming games or AP news reports which are about as "routine sports scores" as they come.
WP:NCOLLATH specifies national media attention, and I don't see this at all (the Florida article is because he was local to Florida at the time of writing.)
SportingFlyertalk06:19, 25 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The introductory language of those two sub-guidelines is clear that they are inclusionary and not exclusionary: "Failing to meet the criteria in this guideline means that notability will need to be established in other ways (e.g. the general notability guideline, or other, topic-specific, notability guidelines)."
Cbl62 (
talk)
16:08, 25 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Does not meet
WP:NCOLLATH or
WP:NGRIDIRON. The extent of his professional football career was a tryout with the
Jacksonville Jaguars[1]. In college, he did not win any national awards or attract significant, non-trivial national media coverage as a player.
Keep. It is long established that
WP:NCOLLATH is an inclusionary standard and that college players who satisfy
WP:GNG may also be included. Saint Juste was one of the leading rushers in college football's Division I FBS with > 1,500 yards in 2017. He received coverage in multiple reliable sources and thus passes under GNG. Regardless of whether he makes it in the NFL, he has clear notability from his college career.
Cbl62 (
talk)
18:33, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The stories about his verbal commitment from high school and making the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl are
WP:ROUTINE news coverage for many high school/college football players, many of whom do not meet Wikipedia notability standards. Also, being the MVP of a Division I team is not a sign of notability. Some of those stories (like the Western Carolina one) concern the team more than just Saint Juste.
Arbor to SJ (
talk)
20:46, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
I believe that you will find that many of those examples are actually
WP:NOTROUTINE. Sure, some are by nature, but others provide more detail than we find for the typical college athlete and far surpasses the standards set in
WP:ROUTINE for sports of "sports scores" -- further,
WP:ROUTINE references specifically the notability of events and not people.--
Paul McDonald (
talk)
20:57, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
While many of the articles of the 1,000+ articles I found are routine (e.g., passing mentions in game coverage or mere transactional announcements), many others represent significant coverage with details of Saint Juste's life and accomplishments. The 13 items selected above are but a few of the examples of significant coverage. The essential truth, I suspect, is that any running back who ranks among the top 10 rushers (among several hundred running backs in Division I FBS) in a given year will be the subject of significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources. There are plenty of border-line cases where notability is doubtful, but this is not one of them.
Cbl62 (
talk)
21:22, 20 September 2018 (UTC)reply
My concern with the selection of articles above is that the articles which demonstrate
WP:SIGCOV are all local sources, the ones that are national sources are routine reporting of upcoming games or AP news reports which are about as "routine sports scores" as they come.
WP:NCOLLATH specifies national media attention, and I don't see this at all (the Florida article is because he was local to Florida at the time of writing.)
SportingFlyertalk06:19, 25 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The introductory language of those two sub-guidelines is clear that they are inclusionary and not exclusionary: "Failing to meet the criteria in this guideline means that notability will need to be established in other ways (e.g. the general notability guideline, or other, topic-specific, notability guidelines)."
Cbl62 (
talk)
16:08, 25 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.