- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 07:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Devekut
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Devekut ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This essay-like page on esoteric religious terminology provides no real evidence of substantial discussion of the topic as a subject in its own right, and is almost entirely unsourced and dauntingly unencyclopedic. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion and Judaism. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Major concept in Jewish mysticism. Clearly notable topic (just search g-scholar etc). You just added a maintenance tag, so give it time to work. Or discuss specific sections to trim or delete. Or trim unsourced as you see fit. Or put in requests for editing assistance or comments. My two cents.
ProfGray (
talk)
10:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sample sources:
- Schmidt, Gilya G. "Cleaving to God" through the ages: An historical analysis of the Jewish concept of" devekut." Mystics Quarterly 21, no. 4 (1995): 103-120.
- Goldberg, Joel R. Yechiel Shalom. Mystical union, individuality, and individuation in Provençal and Catalonian Kabbalah. New York University, 2001.
- Pachter, Mordechai. "The Concept of Devekut in the Homiletical Ethical Writings of 16th Century Safed." Studies in Medieval Jewish History and Literature 2 (1984): 171-230.
- Scholem, Gershom. "Devekut, or Com-munion with God." Gershom Scholem, The Messianic Idea in Judaism, and Other Essays in Jewish Spirituality (New York, 1971): 203-227. ProfGray ( talk) 10:39, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Major concept in Jewish mysticism. Clearly notable topic (just search g-scholar etc). You just added a maintenance tag, so give it time to work. Or discuss specific sections to trim or delete. Or trim unsourced as you see fit. Or put in requests for editing assistance or comments. My two cents.
ProfGray (
talk)
10:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep The Cambridge Dictionary of Judaism and Jewish Culture has an entry on p.133-134 and provides further references. Vexations ( talk) 11:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep The article needs work, but the concept is a notable one that is covered at length and in depth in books (see this search in Google Books) and in scholarly literature (see this search). There are ample references available in reliable and verifiable sources that demonstrate that this is an encyclopedic topic with "real evidence of substantial discussion of the topic as a subject in its own right". These materials could be and should be used to address any issues with sourcing. Alansohn ( talk) 17:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: I have no doubt that it is exists as a term in Jewish mysticism, and that it has been written about, but from purveying the sources I would question whether it is necessarily a "major concept". Many sources note the fluctuating usage of the term. But assuming a coherent encyclopedia entry can be written about the topic, reforming this particular article may actually be more energy intensive than starting from scratch. I only hope some volunteers emerge to improve it, because given the shoddy sourcing of the current OR essay, WP:TNT seems a more viable option to me. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:36, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Plenty of good sources online, including Encyclopaedia Britannica.
- Ha! If even Britannica, the mother of all aggregators, is only able to come up with a two-paragraph stub, that is hardly a glowing testament to its notability. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- There's no rule against short articles, so long as they're well sourced. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 ( talk) 19:01, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep well sourced and WP:N article central to Kaballah as well. This article should never have been renominated for deletion given the strong WP:CONSENSUS to Keep it in the first nomination, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devekut. IZAK ( talk) 21:07, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 07:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Devekut
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Devekut ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This essay-like page on esoteric religious terminology provides no real evidence of substantial discussion of the topic as a subject in its own right, and is almost entirely unsourced and dauntingly unencyclopedic. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion and Judaism. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Major concept in Jewish mysticism. Clearly notable topic (just search g-scholar etc). You just added a maintenance tag, so give it time to work. Or discuss specific sections to trim or delete. Or trim unsourced as you see fit. Or put in requests for editing assistance or comments. My two cents.
ProfGray (
talk)
10:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sample sources:
- Schmidt, Gilya G. "Cleaving to God" through the ages: An historical analysis of the Jewish concept of" devekut." Mystics Quarterly 21, no. 4 (1995): 103-120.
- Goldberg, Joel R. Yechiel Shalom. Mystical union, individuality, and individuation in Provençal and Catalonian Kabbalah. New York University, 2001.
- Pachter, Mordechai. "The Concept of Devekut in the Homiletical Ethical Writings of 16th Century Safed." Studies in Medieval Jewish History and Literature 2 (1984): 171-230.
- Scholem, Gershom. "Devekut, or Com-munion with God." Gershom Scholem, The Messianic Idea in Judaism, and Other Essays in Jewish Spirituality (New York, 1971): 203-227. ProfGray ( talk) 10:39, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Major concept in Jewish mysticism. Clearly notable topic (just search g-scholar etc). You just added a maintenance tag, so give it time to work. Or discuss specific sections to trim or delete. Or trim unsourced as you see fit. Or put in requests for editing assistance or comments. My two cents.
ProfGray (
talk)
10:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep The Cambridge Dictionary of Judaism and Jewish Culture has an entry on p.133-134 and provides further references. Vexations ( talk) 11:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep The article needs work, but the concept is a notable one that is covered at length and in depth in books (see this search in Google Books) and in scholarly literature (see this search). There are ample references available in reliable and verifiable sources that demonstrate that this is an encyclopedic topic with "real evidence of substantial discussion of the topic as a subject in its own right". These materials could be and should be used to address any issues with sourcing. Alansohn ( talk) 17:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: I have no doubt that it is exists as a term in Jewish mysticism, and that it has been written about, but from purveying the sources I would question whether it is necessarily a "major concept". Many sources note the fluctuating usage of the term. But assuming a coherent encyclopedia entry can be written about the topic, reforming this particular article may actually be more energy intensive than starting from scratch. I only hope some volunteers emerge to improve it, because given the shoddy sourcing of the current OR essay, WP:TNT seems a more viable option to me. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:36, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Plenty of good sources online, including Encyclopaedia Britannica.
- Ha! If even Britannica, the mother of all aggregators, is only able to come up with a two-paragraph stub, that is hardly a glowing testament to its notability. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- There's no rule against short articles, so long as they're well sourced. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 ( talk) 19:01, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Keep well sourced and WP:N article central to Kaballah as well. This article should never have been renominated for deletion given the strong WP:CONSENSUS to Keep it in the first nomination, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devekut. IZAK ( talk) 21:07, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.