- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Sources demonstrate the article subject plays in the ABA League, thereby satisfying WP:NHOOPS. (non-admin closure) Optakeover (U) (T) (C) 04:45, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Daniel Jansen (basketball)
- Daniel Jansen (basketball) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested PROD with no removal rationale. As with a number of other recently-created and -deleted basketballer articles, this player hasn't (yet) played in any of the relevant leagues conferring automatic notability, although he's currently on the roster of a team which will play in one of those leagues when it begins. Generally speaking, though, that means that he gets an article when he actually takes the court in the relevant league, rather than beforehand. Current sourcing is better than some, but local/routine mentions only. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 23:34, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iowa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:47, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Belgian League is a fully professional one and he's going to play in the ABA League, that meet all the criteria. Asturkian ( talk) 12:35, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- Delete Nothing I can find shows he meet WP:GNG and he doesn't pass WP:NHOOPS. - DJSasso ( talk) 12:43, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
*Delete - Neither leagues mentioned equate to inherent notability for a player. The subject needs to meet
WP:GNG but fails to reach the bar.
TheGracefulSlick (
talk) 16:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom, but we're going to keep getting these as long as NSPORTS keeps up with the bonehead dozen-year-old definition of "fully professional" = "top-flight." That language's sell-by date's long passed and it's confusing to people who say "Wait, what, they're all getting paid aren't they?" Nha Trang Allons! 20:41, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- NSPORT doesn't actually say that and hasn't for awhile. At least for basketball. - DJSasso ( talk) 12:02, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- It does for football, which muddies everything else. In a fully professional, 3rd tier league, not everyone should be default notable for one game. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- The author of this article wasn't aware of the notabilty criteria, see discussions of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eric Garcia (basketball). After being made aware of them he removed the articles not likely to pass or WP:GNG or WP:NHOOPS. The ones left are Daniel Jansen and Eric Garcia, two players who should pass WP:NHOOPS in less than a week when they play their first game in the ABA League. We can be bureaucratic about it and remove them now just to add them again in less than a week (per WP:CRYSTAL ball and all), or we could just wait, this being a new editors rookie mistake which he is now aware of not doing again. Dammit_steve ( talk) 16:44, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Delete does not meet notability guidelines for basketball players. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep - With all due respect, deletion advocates, you have this one wrong. Don't care that he's not a player in a pro league, he was the Division II Player of the Year in 2016 and as such passes our General Notability Guideline. The GNG for basketball players is therefore irrelevant. Carrite ( talk) 15:42, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note also that his team was Division II National Champions in 2015-16. Carrite ( talk) 15:44, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep per User:Carrite. Antrocent ( ♫♬) 19:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep also agree with Carrite. The reason for the nomination made sense but in this case the player has separate notability already.-- Milowent • has spoken 12:46, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep - as DII player of the year. Perhaps another interesting basketball project for newcomers would be adding Division II winners to
List of U.S. men's college basketball national player of the year awards. See my suggestion on the talk page: [
[1]]
TimTempleton
(talk)
(cont) 23:33, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'm guessing the scope of that article is intentionally limited to Division I. Frankly, I'm not sure that winning a Division II award is enough to demonstrate notability. Division II sports just really aren't a very big deal to most American sports fans. Lepricavark ( talk) 04:38, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz talk 02:20, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz talk 02:20, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
- I think it depends on the sport. DII football is well represented on Wikipedia - DII basketball not so much, but the player of the year, as arguably the best player in the entire division, should pass the notability test. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 18:32, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note to closing admin This player is scheduled to make his debut in the ABA League in about five hours. Please hold off on a final decision until that point and note that any arguments that he doesn't meet WP:NBASKETBALL will be moot. Let's avoid a deletion followed by an "acceptable" re-creation. Thanks. Rikster2 ( talk) 12:39, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Update - Jansen now officially meets WP:NBASKETBALL, having appeared in a game in the ABA League. See here. Rikster2 ( talk) 18:28, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep setting aside that the player will likely meet WP:NBASKETBALL in a few hours, he meets GNG in my estimation (though I found it easier to find sources using "Dan" vs. "Daniel") with sources like this and this and this. Rikster2 ( talk) 12:59, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:NBASKETBALL per User:Rikster2 above -- Dammit_steve ( talk) 18:36, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Now meets WP:NBASKETBALL, per Rikster2. He probably met WP:GNG & WP:NCOLLATH, even before that, but that's all a moot point now. A real time-waster of an AfD nomination. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 22:04, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
- You're welcome to express your opinion, but given the state of the article at the time I came across it, I can assure you this hasn't been a waste of time. Best to remain civil about such things, I would suggest. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep passes NBASKETBALL. I remain unconvinced that being a DII player of the year counts for anything. Lepricavark ( talk) 00:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- well, I did provide three substantial articles from three different independent reliable sources above. It’s moot at this point, but since I started looking after this discussion it has appeared that D2 NPOYS do receive coverage enough to meet GNG, at least recent ones where you’d expect to find on-line sources. Rikster2 ( talk) 00:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Sources demonstrate the article subject plays in the ABA League, thereby satisfying WP:NHOOPS. (non-admin closure) Optakeover (U) (T) (C) 04:45, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Daniel Jansen (basketball)
- Daniel Jansen (basketball) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested PROD with no removal rationale. As with a number of other recently-created and -deleted basketballer articles, this player hasn't (yet) played in any of the relevant leagues conferring automatic notability, although he's currently on the roster of a team which will play in one of those leagues when it begins. Generally speaking, though, that means that he gets an article when he actually takes the court in the relevant league, rather than beforehand. Current sourcing is better than some, but local/routine mentions only. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 23:34, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iowa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:47, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Belgian League is a fully professional one and he's going to play in the ABA League, that meet all the criteria. Asturkian ( talk) 12:35, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- Delete Nothing I can find shows he meet WP:GNG and he doesn't pass WP:NHOOPS. - DJSasso ( talk) 12:43, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
*Delete - Neither leagues mentioned equate to inherent notability for a player. The subject needs to meet
WP:GNG but fails to reach the bar.
TheGracefulSlick (
talk) 16:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom, but we're going to keep getting these as long as NSPORTS keeps up with the bonehead dozen-year-old definition of "fully professional" = "top-flight." That language's sell-by date's long passed and it's confusing to people who say "Wait, what, they're all getting paid aren't they?" Nha Trang Allons! 20:41, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- NSPORT doesn't actually say that and hasn't for awhile. At least for basketball. - DJSasso ( talk) 12:02, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- It does for football, which muddies everything else. In a fully professional, 3rd tier league, not everyone should be default notable for one game. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- The author of this article wasn't aware of the notabilty criteria, see discussions of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eric Garcia (basketball). After being made aware of them he removed the articles not likely to pass or WP:GNG or WP:NHOOPS. The ones left are Daniel Jansen and Eric Garcia, two players who should pass WP:NHOOPS in less than a week when they play their first game in the ABA League. We can be bureaucratic about it and remove them now just to add them again in less than a week (per WP:CRYSTAL ball and all), or we could just wait, this being a new editors rookie mistake which he is now aware of not doing again. Dammit_steve ( talk) 16:44, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Delete does not meet notability guidelines for basketball players. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep - With all due respect, deletion advocates, you have this one wrong. Don't care that he's not a player in a pro league, he was the Division II Player of the Year in 2016 and as such passes our General Notability Guideline. The GNG for basketball players is therefore irrelevant. Carrite ( talk) 15:42, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note also that his team was Division II National Champions in 2015-16. Carrite ( talk) 15:44, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep per User:Carrite. Antrocent ( ♫♬) 19:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep also agree with Carrite. The reason for the nomination made sense but in this case the player has separate notability already.-- Milowent • has spoken 12:46, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep - as DII player of the year. Perhaps another interesting basketball project for newcomers would be adding Division II winners to
List of U.S. men's college basketball national player of the year awards. See my suggestion on the talk page: [
[1]]
TimTempleton
(talk)
(cont) 23:33, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'm guessing the scope of that article is intentionally limited to Division I. Frankly, I'm not sure that winning a Division II award is enough to demonstrate notability. Division II sports just really aren't a very big deal to most American sports fans. Lepricavark ( talk) 04:38, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz talk 02:20, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz talk 02:20, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
- I think it depends on the sport. DII football is well represented on Wikipedia - DII basketball not so much, but the player of the year, as arguably the best player in the entire division, should pass the notability test. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 18:32, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note to closing admin This player is scheduled to make his debut in the ABA League in about five hours. Please hold off on a final decision until that point and note that any arguments that he doesn't meet WP:NBASKETBALL will be moot. Let's avoid a deletion followed by an "acceptable" re-creation. Thanks. Rikster2 ( talk) 12:39, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Update - Jansen now officially meets WP:NBASKETBALL, having appeared in a game in the ABA League. See here. Rikster2 ( talk) 18:28, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep setting aside that the player will likely meet WP:NBASKETBALL in a few hours, he meets GNG in my estimation (though I found it easier to find sources using "Dan" vs. "Daniel") with sources like this and this and this. Rikster2 ( talk) 12:59, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:NBASKETBALL per User:Rikster2 above -- Dammit_steve ( talk) 18:36, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Now meets WP:NBASKETBALL, per Rikster2. He probably met WP:GNG & WP:NCOLLATH, even before that, but that's all a moot point now. A real time-waster of an AfD nomination. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 22:04, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
- You're welcome to express your opinion, but given the state of the article at the time I came across it, I can assure you this hasn't been a waste of time. Best to remain civil about such things, I would suggest. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep passes NBASKETBALL. I remain unconvinced that being a DII player of the year counts for anything. Lepricavark ( talk) 00:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- well, I did provide three substantial articles from three different independent reliable sources above. It’s moot at this point, but since I started looking after this discussion it has appeared that D2 NPOYS do receive coverage enough to meet GNG, at least recent ones where you’d expect to find on-line sources. Rikster2 ( talk) 00:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.