- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. The sources found during this debate fail to convince a substantial number of editors. I also find compelling the argument by JoelleJay that just because this territory is tiny, we should not drop SIGCOV. However, while my sympathy lies with the "delete" argument, there are also strong policy-based "keep" !votes. Hence: "no consensus". Randykitty ( talk) 17:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
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- Dai Podziewski ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable amateur footballer who earned two caps with the Northern Mariana Islands national football team. Unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage from third-party sources, failing WP:GNG. I found this. JTtheOG ( talk) 03:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Japan, Oceania, and United States of America. JTtheOG ( talk) 03:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I found [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], among many more sources. Clearly significant figure in Northern Mariana Islands football with ongoing career. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 23:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep as if sources found by Das osmnezz. I am currently away from my home this week, but will improve this article, among others, when I return. Davidlofgren1996 ( talk) 12:57, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Of the above, the three best sources are all from the
Saipan Tribune and thus count as one. The two from the mvariety.com mention the subject twice each and contain no significant coverage on him. As of now, he fails
WP:GNG as it requires multiple significant sources from multiple publications.
Alvaldi (
talk)
13:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
- A bit confused by this one, if the articles in the Saipan Tribune are good, what difference does it make if they all come from the same newspaper? The Northern Mariana Islands are tiny, and there only appears to be three newspapers for the entirety of the islands. Podziewski is 'interviewed' in the Marianas Variety here, and the only other newspaper is the Marianas Business Journal; with Podziewski having nothing to do with business, it is understandable that he does not feature here.
- It feels somewhat harsh to discount an entire nation due to their lack of journalism, and I feel that, as far as topics in the Marianas go, Podziewski is comparatively well-covered. Davidlofgren1996 ( talk) 17:20, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 09:07, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep clearly passes GNG after recent expansion.-- Ortizesp ( talk) 05:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - Article comprehensively fails WP:GNG as the coverage is routine and heavily leans on quotes from the subject. I agree with Alvaldi that the mvariety.com sources barely mention Podziewski and clearly fall short of SIGCOV. Jogurney ( talk) 14:01, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, agreed with others that the coverage is paltry. Why should footballers selected from a pool of ~50k people be granted inherent notability when they play for a subnational territory but not when they play for a comparably-sized city?
JoelleJay (
talk)
20:43, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
- Why does Wikipedia put politicians on such a pedestal? WP:NPOLITICIAN states that politicians are presumed to be notable if they have "held international, national, or state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels." If we are to delete this article, I fear it would open the door for all Mariana Islands articles to be deleted. Having looked through the list of people from the Northern Mariana Islands, most of them also appear to only garner coverage in either the Saipan Tribune or the Marianas Variety, even some high-ranking politicians (who don't appear to have much more coverage than Podziewski) - but this should surely be expected of such a small nation.
- Podziewski is an international representative for the Northern Mariana Islands, and has garnered more coverage than some international sportspeople from larger nations. If a footballer played at semi-professional level in Shropshire, and was covered multiple times in the Shropshire Star, then I would say they are a notable figure in Shropshire. I don't see why the articles all coming from one place is relevant, they are clearly covering different periods of Podziewski's life, and are not just copy/paste content saying the same thing over and over.
Davidlofgren1996 (
talk)
12:18, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- NPOL has different criteria than what we use for sportspeople, although there is generally a strong presumption that at least high-level politicians will receive GNG coverage outside their local area/internationally through international political activity.
- A Shropshire lad would also fail GNG if he was only covered in one Shropshire paper. It shouldn't matter if the locale is an ocean island or merely islanded in Severn stream, if multiple independent parties haven't given a subject SIGCOV in RS then a standalone is not warranted. JoelleJay ( talk) 21:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Coverage is clear, and it's not reasonable to expect the same standards for a tiny microstate. Stifle ( talk) 10:25, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. The sources found during this debate fail to convince a substantial number of editors. I also find compelling the argument by JoelleJay that just because this territory is tiny, we should not drop SIGCOV. However, while my sympathy lies with the "delete" argument, there are also strong policy-based "keep" !votes. Hence: "no consensus". Randykitty ( talk) 17:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Dai Podziewski ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable amateur footballer who earned two caps with the Northern Mariana Islands national football team. Unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage from third-party sources, failing WP:GNG. I found this. JTtheOG ( talk) 03:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Japan, Oceania, and United States of America. JTtheOG ( talk) 03:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I found [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], among many more sources. Clearly significant figure in Northern Mariana Islands football with ongoing career. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 23:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep as if sources found by Das osmnezz. I am currently away from my home this week, but will improve this article, among others, when I return. Davidlofgren1996 ( talk) 12:57, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Of the above, the three best sources are all from the
Saipan Tribune and thus count as one. The two from the mvariety.com mention the subject twice each and contain no significant coverage on him. As of now, he fails
WP:GNG as it requires multiple significant sources from multiple publications.
Alvaldi (
talk)
13:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
- A bit confused by this one, if the articles in the Saipan Tribune are good, what difference does it make if they all come from the same newspaper? The Northern Mariana Islands are tiny, and there only appears to be three newspapers for the entirety of the islands. Podziewski is 'interviewed' in the Marianas Variety here, and the only other newspaper is the Marianas Business Journal; with Podziewski having nothing to do with business, it is understandable that he does not feature here.
- It feels somewhat harsh to discount an entire nation due to their lack of journalism, and I feel that, as far as topics in the Marianas go, Podziewski is comparatively well-covered. Davidlofgren1996 ( talk) 17:20, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 09:07, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep clearly passes GNG after recent expansion.-- Ortizesp ( talk) 05:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - Article comprehensively fails WP:GNG as the coverage is routine and heavily leans on quotes from the subject. I agree with Alvaldi that the mvariety.com sources barely mention Podziewski and clearly fall short of SIGCOV. Jogurney ( talk) 14:01, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, agreed with others that the coverage is paltry. Why should footballers selected from a pool of ~50k people be granted inherent notability when they play for a subnational territory but not when they play for a comparably-sized city?
JoelleJay (
talk)
20:43, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
- Why does Wikipedia put politicians on such a pedestal? WP:NPOLITICIAN states that politicians are presumed to be notable if they have "held international, national, or state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels." If we are to delete this article, I fear it would open the door for all Mariana Islands articles to be deleted. Having looked through the list of people from the Northern Mariana Islands, most of them also appear to only garner coverage in either the Saipan Tribune or the Marianas Variety, even some high-ranking politicians (who don't appear to have much more coverage than Podziewski) - but this should surely be expected of such a small nation.
- Podziewski is an international representative for the Northern Mariana Islands, and has garnered more coverage than some international sportspeople from larger nations. If a footballer played at semi-professional level in Shropshire, and was covered multiple times in the Shropshire Star, then I would say they are a notable figure in Shropshire. I don't see why the articles all coming from one place is relevant, they are clearly covering different periods of Podziewski's life, and are not just copy/paste content saying the same thing over and over.
Davidlofgren1996 (
talk)
12:18, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- NPOL has different criteria than what we use for sportspeople, although there is generally a strong presumption that at least high-level politicians will receive GNG coverage outside their local area/internationally through international political activity.
- A Shropshire lad would also fail GNG if he was only covered in one Shropshire paper. It shouldn't matter if the locale is an ocean island or merely islanded in Severn stream, if multiple independent parties haven't given a subject SIGCOV in RS then a standalone is not warranted. JoelleJay ( talk) 21:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Coverage is clear, and it's not reasonable to expect the same standards for a tiny microstate. Stifle ( talk) 10:25, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.