- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. § FreeRangeFrog croak 17:49, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
- Croftwerk ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Declined PROD. Fairly insignificant company. Only detailed coverage is in "Dosch Design Magazine", which seems to be a trivial publication. The director is "name-checked" in a few other sources, but the company is not mentioned by name and there is no significant coverage in any case. Cannot find any other sources worth mentioning. Moswento talky 19:50, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete as non-notable no significant independent coverage. Classic promotional-intent article by first-time editor. TheLongTone ( talk) 20:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - all sources are independent? - The Daily Record is a national newspaper with a circulation of 250,000+ so definitely a significant source? Dosch Design Magazine has a print run of 10,000 to the 3D industry in German and is distributed online worldwide, it's a relevant trade publication for the industry. First time publishers should be encouraged and helped by the community, or is this a closed shop? That's got nothing to do with the articles content?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 15:39, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, the Daily Record is an independent source, but it doesn't actually discuss "Croftwerk" and it only mentions the director of Croftwerk in passing. The Daily Record piece is about the music video, rather than the company involved in making the music video. Also, although we welcome new editors, we discourage them from editing articles when they have a conflict of interest with the article subject. Moswento talky 14:49, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I'd also challenge the assertion that Croftwerk is a "fairly insignificant" company - Look at how many of the artists the company works with have Wikipedia articles, this should illustrate it's standing as a significant cultural contributor to the music scene, I'm not sure how big the indie scene is in rural Buckinghamshire but if you lived in any European city or were aged under 25 the chances are you'd have come across Croftwerk video content.
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 15:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- You might also want to read this page entitled "No personal attacks". Moswento talky 15:10, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I'm merely highlighting how you don't seem to be in a location that would allow you to make a personal judgement (not a quantifiable and independent one) on Croftwerk's notability in the contemporary music scene? Here's guideline 5 on Wikipedia's notability criteria topics related to music that Croftwerk satisfies, "Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture" The sub-culture is indie music, here are a list of some respected indie music blogs that Croftwerk videos regularly receive coverage on "Louder Than Bombs", "Slicing Up Eyeballs", "Popservations", "God Is In The TV", "Monkey Picks", "Dangerous Minds", I can go on if needed?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 16:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I still fail to see why my home location affects my ability to judge an article by Wikipedia's notability criteria. But in any case, as a company, Croftwerk doesn't need to meet the notability guidelines for "music", it needs to meet the notability guidelines for companies, as found
here. In other words, you need significant discussion of the company in multiple independent sources. Also, I am intrigued by something else - what age do you think I am? And what sort of music do you presume me to listen to?
Moswento
talky 19:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- This may be where your misunderstanding comes in, I've created the Croftwerk article because of the contribution to music culture. I'd argue this article should be judged by the music notability criteria because it refers to music and focuses on artists. A scene within a scene if you will. I could understand judging by company standards if there was reference to turnover, business plans, staff numbers etc but this isn't the case. It should be considered as "music related". Regarding your location question, the area you live in is a massive contributory influence in independent music. It's only bland mass homogenised music that has no geographic specific traits, as I say I'm unaware of a substantial music scene in rural Buckinghamshire but happy to be corrected on this if wrong. Regarding your age and music taste, can we please stick to matters related to editing an online encyclopaedia as that's what I'm here for and I assume you are too?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 21:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- "This may be where your misunderstanding comes in". So Croftwerk isn't a company? In any case, even if you judged it by the "Notability (music)" standards, it would fail. But I can see this isn't a fruitful discussion. Let's wait for other editors to comment. Moswento talky 20:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- This may be where your misunderstanding comes in, I've created the Croftwerk article because of the contribution to music culture. I'd argue this article should be judged by the music notability criteria because it refers to music and focuses on artists. A scene within a scene if you will. I could understand judging by company standards if there was reference to turnover, business plans, staff numbers etc but this isn't the case. It should be considered as "music related". Regarding your location question, the area you live in is a massive contributory influence in independent music. It's only bland mass homogenised music that has no geographic specific traits, as I say I'm unaware of a substantial music scene in rural Buckinghamshire but happy to be corrected on this if wrong. Regarding your age and music taste, can we please stick to matters related to editing an online encyclopaedia as that's what I'm here for and I assume you are too?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 21:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I still fail to see why my home location affects my ability to judge an article by Wikipedia's notability criteria. But in any case, as a company, Croftwerk doesn't need to meet the notability guidelines for "music", it needs to meet the notability guidelines for companies, as found
here. In other words, you need significant discussion of the company in multiple independent sources. Also, I am intrigued by something else - what age do you think I am? And what sort of music do you presume me to listen to?
Moswento
talky 19:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:00, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep The sources are perfectly reliable, there are to many references, but need other sources which are reliable Miyole ( talk) 16:52, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete - per nom, there is only one no trivial mention. The subject can not inherit notability from the acts it is connected with. Fails WP:GNG, WP:CORP, WP:NMUSIC. Flat Out let's discuss it 02:32, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:26, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete As others have mentioned, the company hasn't received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources ( WP:N, WP:CORP). I haven't found anything else that would show why it is worthy of an encyclopedia article. Them From Space 16:23, 24 April 2014 (UTC)d
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. § FreeRangeFrog croak 17:49, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
- Croftwerk ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Declined PROD. Fairly insignificant company. Only detailed coverage is in "Dosch Design Magazine", which seems to be a trivial publication. The director is "name-checked" in a few other sources, but the company is not mentioned by name and there is no significant coverage in any case. Cannot find any other sources worth mentioning. Moswento talky 19:50, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete as non-notable no significant independent coverage. Classic promotional-intent article by first-time editor. TheLongTone ( talk) 20:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - all sources are independent? - The Daily Record is a national newspaper with a circulation of 250,000+ so definitely a significant source? Dosch Design Magazine has a print run of 10,000 to the 3D industry in German and is distributed online worldwide, it's a relevant trade publication for the industry. First time publishers should be encouraged and helped by the community, or is this a closed shop? That's got nothing to do with the articles content?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 15:39, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, the Daily Record is an independent source, but it doesn't actually discuss "Croftwerk" and it only mentions the director of Croftwerk in passing. The Daily Record piece is about the music video, rather than the company involved in making the music video. Also, although we welcome new editors, we discourage them from editing articles when they have a conflict of interest with the article subject. Moswento talky 14:49, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I'd also challenge the assertion that Croftwerk is a "fairly insignificant" company - Look at how many of the artists the company works with have Wikipedia articles, this should illustrate it's standing as a significant cultural contributor to the music scene, I'm not sure how big the indie scene is in rural Buckinghamshire but if you lived in any European city or were aged under 25 the chances are you'd have come across Croftwerk video content.
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 15:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- You might also want to read this page entitled "No personal attacks". Moswento talky 15:10, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I'm merely highlighting how you don't seem to be in a location that would allow you to make a personal judgement (not a quantifiable and independent one) on Croftwerk's notability in the contemporary music scene? Here's guideline 5 on Wikipedia's notability criteria topics related to music that Croftwerk satisfies, "Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture" The sub-culture is indie music, here are a list of some respected indie music blogs that Croftwerk videos regularly receive coverage on "Louder Than Bombs", "Slicing Up Eyeballs", "Popservations", "God Is In The TV", "Monkey Picks", "Dangerous Minds", I can go on if needed?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 16:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I still fail to see why my home location affects my ability to judge an article by Wikipedia's notability criteria. But in any case, as a company, Croftwerk doesn't need to meet the notability guidelines for "music", it needs to meet the notability guidelines for companies, as found
here. In other words, you need significant discussion of the company in multiple independent sources. Also, I am intrigued by something else - what age do you think I am? And what sort of music do you presume me to listen to?
Moswento
talky 19:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- This may be where your misunderstanding comes in, I've created the Croftwerk article because of the contribution to music culture. I'd argue this article should be judged by the music notability criteria because it refers to music and focuses on artists. A scene within a scene if you will. I could understand judging by company standards if there was reference to turnover, business plans, staff numbers etc but this isn't the case. It should be considered as "music related". Regarding your location question, the area you live in is a massive contributory influence in independent music. It's only bland mass homogenised music that has no geographic specific traits, as I say I'm unaware of a substantial music scene in rural Buckinghamshire but happy to be corrected on this if wrong. Regarding your age and music taste, can we please stick to matters related to editing an online encyclopaedia as that's what I'm here for and I assume you are too?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 21:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- "This may be where your misunderstanding comes in". So Croftwerk isn't a company? In any case, even if you judged it by the "Notability (music)" standards, it would fail. But I can see this isn't a fruitful discussion. Let's wait for other editors to comment. Moswento talky 20:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- This may be where your misunderstanding comes in, I've created the Croftwerk article because of the contribution to music culture. I'd argue this article should be judged by the music notability criteria because it refers to music and focuses on artists. A scene within a scene if you will. I could understand judging by company standards if there was reference to turnover, business plans, staff numbers etc but this isn't the case. It should be considered as "music related". Regarding your location question, the area you live in is a massive contributory influence in independent music. It's only bland mass homogenised music that has no geographic specific traits, as I say I'm unaware of a substantial music scene in rural Buckinghamshire but happy to be corrected on this if wrong. Regarding your age and music taste, can we please stick to matters related to editing an online encyclopaedia as that's what I'm here for and I assume you are too?
CharlotteSimpson (
talk) 21:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- I still fail to see why my home location affects my ability to judge an article by Wikipedia's notability criteria. But in any case, as a company, Croftwerk doesn't need to meet the notability guidelines for "music", it needs to meet the notability guidelines for companies, as found
here. In other words, you need significant discussion of the company in multiple independent sources. Also, I am intrigued by something else - what age do you think I am? And what sort of music do you presume me to listen to?
Moswento
talky 19:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:00, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep The sources are perfectly reliable, there are to many references, but need other sources which are reliable Miyole ( talk) 16:52, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete - per nom, there is only one no trivial mention. The subject can not inherit notability from the acts it is connected with. Fails WP:GNG, WP:CORP, WP:NMUSIC. Flat Out let's discuss it 02:32, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:26, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete As others have mentioned, the company hasn't received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources ( WP:N, WP:CORP). I haven't found anything else that would show why it is worthy of an encyclopedia article. Them From Space 16:23, 24 April 2014 (UTC)d
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.