- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep with the recognition that the !votes to keep hinge on paywalled sources. If these are found not to meet the bar for GNG, a new AfD may be needed. Vanamonde ( Talk) 06:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Christin Lilja
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- Christin Lilja ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:BASIC, WP:NSPORT. Avilich ( talk) 23:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Football. Avilich ( talk) 23:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep There is evidence she represented Sweden at UEFA Women's Euro 1997 and played professionally for Athene Moss according to the Norwegian Football Federation. [1] [2] [3]. Dwanyewest ( talk) 00:50, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Sweden. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 20:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:49, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment There does appear to be some evidence of notability, however is it enough for wikipedia? I struggle to find decent sources myself. But nine caps and two goals at international level. There should be better sourcing around for that surely? Govvy ( talk) 22:59, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 01:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - Per @ Dwanyewest:. @ GiantSnowman:, @ Govvy: I found [4], [5], [6], [7], and [8]. Clearly significant figure in Swedish women's and international football at the time. She helped Sweden reach semis in the 1997 UEFA Women's Euro and most likely has offline sources having played in the 1990s-2000s. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 16:10, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Folkbladet - nowhere near sigcov of her. Gratistidning - a copy and paste of an article from her employer IFK Norrköping's website which makes it non-independent of her. The nt.se articles are paywalled. Can you share what they say? Last source is a podcast and is useless. Dougal18 ( talk) 14:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. Agreed with Dougal that the sources above are not sufficient for GNG, and even if the NL articles contained SIGCOV they would count as one source and that's not enough. JoelleJay ( talk) 02:02, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:13, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep, while the sources in the
Norrköpings Tidningar article are paywalled, we can pretty well assume from the nature of both the newspaper and the titles that they provide SIGCOV. Since this newspaper is a major regional newspaper that serves several hundred thousand people, it is most likely a reliable source, as such this individual passes
WP:GNG.
Devonian Wombat (
talk) 06:57, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ Devonian Wombat I disagree, those headlines read like either transactional retirement reports or interviews, but even if they were SIGCOV they count as ONE source so she still would not pass GNG. JoelleJay ( talk) 19:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - Article about former international footballer (helped Sweden reach the semis of a Euro) and current coach which appears to meet the GNG. The January 2011 NT article about her retirement is behind a paywall but appears likely to be SIGCOV. The July 2022 NT article about her coaching career also appears to be SIGCOV. I know that multiple articles from a "single organization or author" are usually counted as one source, but I don't think that makes much sense when the articles are from different authors, from different decades, and cover different aspects of her career (playing v. coaching). The Folkbladet article is close to SIGCOV but perhaps slightly short of it. On the balance though, I think we get there, and if it's slightly short, this is a good case for IAR (she didn't have an unimportant role in Swedish football).
Jogurney (
talk) 03:45, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think those NT articles should be considered likely to contain independent SIGCOV -- there is no way to determine whether something is a routine report, a press release, or an interview, all of which are common on NT (see this random recent article I clicked on that turned out to be a press release based on their identical captions). Folkbladet uses the exact same caption as NT for their own "Lilja's important role" article, which suggests it's a news release rather than independent reporting. If we don't even have the authors of the articles, I also don't think we should be assuming the articles are independent. JoelleJay ( talk) 20:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep with the recognition that the !votes to keep hinge on paywalled sources. If these are found not to meet the bar for GNG, a new AfD may be needed. Vanamonde ( Talk) 06:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Christin Lilja
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Christin Lilja ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:BASIC, WP:NSPORT. Avilich ( talk) 23:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Football. Avilich ( talk) 23:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep There is evidence she represented Sweden at UEFA Women's Euro 1997 and played professionally for Athene Moss according to the Norwegian Football Federation. [1] [2] [3]. Dwanyewest ( talk) 00:50, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Sweden. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 20:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:49, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment There does appear to be some evidence of notability, however is it enough for wikipedia? I struggle to find decent sources myself. But nine caps and two goals at international level. There should be better sourcing around for that surely? Govvy ( talk) 22:59, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 01:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - Per @ Dwanyewest:. @ GiantSnowman:, @ Govvy: I found [4], [5], [6], [7], and [8]. Clearly significant figure in Swedish women's and international football at the time. She helped Sweden reach semis in the 1997 UEFA Women's Euro and most likely has offline sources having played in the 1990s-2000s. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 16:10, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Folkbladet - nowhere near sigcov of her. Gratistidning - a copy and paste of an article from her employer IFK Norrköping's website which makes it non-independent of her. The nt.se articles are paywalled. Can you share what they say? Last source is a podcast and is useless. Dougal18 ( talk) 14:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. Agreed with Dougal that the sources above are not sufficient for GNG, and even if the NL articles contained SIGCOV they would count as one source and that's not enough. JoelleJay ( talk) 02:02, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:13, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep, while the sources in the
Norrköpings Tidningar article are paywalled, we can pretty well assume from the nature of both the newspaper and the titles that they provide SIGCOV. Since this newspaper is a major regional newspaper that serves several hundred thousand people, it is most likely a reliable source, as such this individual passes
WP:GNG.
Devonian Wombat (
talk) 06:57, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ Devonian Wombat I disagree, those headlines read like either transactional retirement reports or interviews, but even if they were SIGCOV they count as ONE source so she still would not pass GNG. JoelleJay ( talk) 19:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - Article about former international footballer (helped Sweden reach the semis of a Euro) and current coach which appears to meet the GNG. The January 2011 NT article about her retirement is behind a paywall but appears likely to be SIGCOV. The July 2022 NT article about her coaching career also appears to be SIGCOV. I know that multiple articles from a "single organization or author" are usually counted as one source, but I don't think that makes much sense when the articles are from different authors, from different decades, and cover different aspects of her career (playing v. coaching). The Folkbladet article is close to SIGCOV but perhaps slightly short of it. On the balance though, I think we get there, and if it's slightly short, this is a good case for IAR (she didn't have an unimportant role in Swedish football).
Jogurney (
talk) 03:45, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think those NT articles should be considered likely to contain independent SIGCOV -- there is no way to determine whether something is a routine report, a press release, or an interview, all of which are common on NT (see this random recent article I clicked on that turned out to be a press release based on their identical captions). Folkbladet uses the exact same caption as NT for their own "Lilja's important role" article, which suggests it's a news release rather than independent reporting. If we don't even have the authors of the articles, I also don't think we should be assuming the articles are independent. JoelleJay ( talk) 20:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.