The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Fails
WP:BASIC,
WP:ANYBIO, and
WP:MUSICBIO. No indication of awards or charted songs, and a paucity of biographical details in secondary sources. The 54 sources cited contain the usual links to self-sourced promo sites and links that mention this person's name only, although in the entire list there were four sources which were longer than one word or sentence:
[1] - A primary source interview on what appears to be a for-pay promotional website, and is the source for most of the biographical details in the article.
[2] - A two-paragraph biography on what appears to be a user-submitted website called "Earmilk".
[3] - A three-paragraph introduction in "The Fader" to a video by Chris Yonge, which contains no biographical information.
@
User:Magnolia677: Here are why the references you mentioned above meet WP: BASIC, ANYBIO and MUSICBIO
*
1 - is not "a primary source interview on what appears to be a for-pay promotional website, and is the source for most of the biographical details in the article." - It is, in fact, a secondary source publications website of creative individuals who work in the field of advertising / creative industries.
*
2 "Earmilk" actually has a wiki page here at
Earmilk and is not a "user-submitted website" but in fact is an award-winning music journal which is written by a hired team and not just any random user.
*
3 - The Fader is a reputable source which has information on "Toronto-based artist Chris Yonge"'s new single "CASH" contributing to his music career.
*
4 Exclaim! is also a reputable secondar source which contains information on a single released by him which also contributes to his "music career" .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
14:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Also, can you explain why it doesn't meet GNG? Thee article has significant reliable secondary sources which are independent from the artist himself .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
14:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
In addition to references 3 + 4 above, he has been a topic on sources by
Local10.com,
Billboard, HipHopCanada,
Nowtoronto.com and
Newswire.ca, give the article in the subject to meet criteria 1, 4, 10,
WP:MUSICBIO as he has been the subject of multiple published works appearing in sources that are reliable, and ndependent of the musician, has been a supporting act in multiple tours and has been a part of a music team for
Tim Horton's campaign amongst others.
TwinTurbo (
talk)
14:00, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Dream Focus: I thought that too, but in fact if you read what has been written about this person in Earmilk and exclaim it is not "significant coverage", but a discussion about one of his videos. The reason I nominated this article for deletion is because there is simply nothing biographical written about this person in a reliable secondary source. Creating YouTube videos that are reviewed by notable magazines does not bestow Wikipedia notability. Have a look yourself at the sources.
Magnolia677 (
talk)
22:40, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
That's an essay, just someone's unpopular opinion, not enough people supported it to promote it to a guideline.
Wikipedia:Notability (music) is the relevant guideline here. All guideline pages have a disclaimer at the top that reads This page documents an English Wikipedia notability guideline. It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.DreamFocus23:12, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:N and
WP:GNG the subject must receive significant coverage in multiple reliable and independent secondary sources. Outside of the multiple sources, if you define that as numerical, the subject does not pass the only notability guideline that matters.
WP:Notability (music) can be used to presume notability for article creation but presumed notability can be rebutted. --
ARoseWolf (
Talk)
18:38, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
TwinTurbo I admire your fight for this article, I really do, but "bludgeoning us to death" with your repeated information is disruptive. You said your points and I am willing to accept we disagree. It is my view, as I stated and as indicated below, that the sources you call reliable are not, in fact, reliable and the sources you say give the subject "significant" coverage do not live up to the definition of that term. That does not take away from the regional, national or global significance of the subject to those who like him. Only that the criteria here determines that the subject of this article is not notable for inclusion here. --
ARoseWolf (
Talk)
21:45, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Please allow me to summarize the 10 sources mentioned above:
[17] - A three-paragraph introduction in "The Fader" to a video by Chris Yonge. This source contains no biographical information.
[18] - A two-paragraph article in "Earmilk", which contains the following biographical information (spelling error included):
CHRIS YONGE, who has been slowly grinding within the chilly city's booming music industry since the age of 19, when he decided to fully dive into his passion by running a recording studio where he fully honed his engineering & rapping skills... He now 25-year old upstart is now set to deliver the follow up to his excellent debut NEGATIVES LP, a three track EP entitled SS17 that has Chris exploring a much more reflective and Toronto-inpspired sound. Today EARMILK has been given the opportunity to debut the second single off of the project, a nostalgic slow-burner entitled 19 that has the rising artist reminiscing on his humble beginnings, assisted by fellow Toronto MC Kaelen.
[19] - A user-submitted blog post on "Banger of the Day".
[20] - An article in "The Hype Magazine" which says the following about Chris Yonge: "Featuring rising star Chris Yonge". That's it!
[21] - A user-submitted blog post on "Banger of the Day".
[22] - A review of a Chris Yonge album on a site called "Daily Chiefers", a
music-submission site where a reviewer decides which submissions to feature. This particular review was written by "Carrier" who has made "7724 POSTS" on the site.
[23] - An introduction to a Chris Yonge video in "Exclaim", which contains no biographical information. It features a quote about the video by Chris Yonge himself, which leans this source towards being a primary source.
[24] - A user-submitted blog post on "Banger of the Day".
[25] - A press release which mentions his name once.
First and foremost, thank you for your admiration ARoseWolf, but not once have I stated to "bludgeon anyone to death" nor is it my intention. I am merely engaging in discussion. And Magnolia677, Earmilk is a reputable secondary source on the artist (a spelling mistake does not make it any less reliable). To say the
Exclaim! reference has no biographical info is false. It contains points like:
"Yonge delivered his intro project in 2018 and is expected to release his debut full-length album this year." which is contributing substantially to his musical biography.
Also, a quote form the artist in a passage does not equate the source to being a primary source. Exclaim is a secondary source and a reputable one too. As with Fader, Hype, BroadwayWorld, newswire. Although it may be a sentence or two, they are still also reputable secondary sources which show mention to the musical career section of his biography. There are others mentioned in the article which is contributing to his biography. He definitely meets
WP:NM 1, as the sources mentioned here are published works that are written by somebody else about the musician. .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
22:35, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Not saying its the strongest source, but his work as a producer is still a valid reference to be included in the article to support his notability. .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
23:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
A source like that could only serve to bolster notability once it is established. It can not be used to confirm or affirm notability. --
ARoseWolf18:47, 20 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The key word or words in all of this is "mention", "mentions" and "mentioned". Significant coverage is not mentions. Also, if multiple (numerical) sources repeat the same information almost verbatim as other sources they are not considered multiple (intellectual) sources used for notability criteria, even if each source is reliable and secondary. They would all be considered ONE source. That is straight from the notes on the criteria itself. --
ARoseWolf16:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep as in the round there is enough coverage for
WP:GNG. The coverage is mainly career focussed but there is some biographical information so deletion is unnecessary in my view,
Atlantic306 (
talk)
01:17, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - As it's written it's not the strongest article in terms of sources, but sources are there and are in the article I just wish it had some stronger sources with more coverage. On the NowToronto article about the
cancelling of the Fringe festival I see reference to a Yonge-Dundas Square, but no reference to Chris Yonge, is he mentioned in that article? Otherwise I don't see anything verifying that he was supposed to play there. If it does mention him and I've overlooked it I'd say that would be yet another good reference to show notability. -
Aoidh (
talk)
03:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep. Subject has at least 3 sources of significant coverage for
WP:GNG. It does contain weak or irrelevant sources (editors should consider improving/removing these) but does include some which contribute to his music career for
WP:MUSICBIO too.
CAVETOWNFAN (
talk)
14:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep A nicely presented article on a notable musician. Some of the sources are a little low tier and would need to be improved before this could receive a B or GA rating, but that's no reason to delete.
FeydHuxtable (
talk)
17:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Fails
WP:BASIC,
WP:ANYBIO, and
WP:MUSICBIO. No indication of awards or charted songs, and a paucity of biographical details in secondary sources. The 54 sources cited contain the usual links to self-sourced promo sites and links that mention this person's name only, although in the entire list there were four sources which were longer than one word or sentence:
[1] - A primary source interview on what appears to be a for-pay promotional website, and is the source for most of the biographical details in the article.
[2] - A two-paragraph biography on what appears to be a user-submitted website called "Earmilk".
[3] - A three-paragraph introduction in "The Fader" to a video by Chris Yonge, which contains no biographical information.
@
User:Magnolia677: Here are why the references you mentioned above meet WP: BASIC, ANYBIO and MUSICBIO
*
1 - is not "a primary source interview on what appears to be a for-pay promotional website, and is the source for most of the biographical details in the article." - It is, in fact, a secondary source publications website of creative individuals who work in the field of advertising / creative industries.
*
2 "Earmilk" actually has a wiki page here at
Earmilk and is not a "user-submitted website" but in fact is an award-winning music journal which is written by a hired team and not just any random user.
*
3 - The Fader is a reputable source which has information on "Toronto-based artist Chris Yonge"'s new single "CASH" contributing to his music career.
*
4 Exclaim! is also a reputable secondar source which contains information on a single released by him which also contributes to his "music career" .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
14:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Also, can you explain why it doesn't meet GNG? Thee article has significant reliable secondary sources which are independent from the artist himself .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
14:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
In addition to references 3 + 4 above, he has been a topic on sources by
Local10.com,
Billboard, HipHopCanada,
Nowtoronto.com and
Newswire.ca, give the article in the subject to meet criteria 1, 4, 10,
WP:MUSICBIO as he has been the subject of multiple published works appearing in sources that are reliable, and ndependent of the musician, has been a supporting act in multiple tours and has been a part of a music team for
Tim Horton's campaign amongst others.
TwinTurbo (
talk)
14:00, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Dream Focus: I thought that too, but in fact if you read what has been written about this person in Earmilk and exclaim it is not "significant coverage", but a discussion about one of his videos. The reason I nominated this article for deletion is because there is simply nothing biographical written about this person in a reliable secondary source. Creating YouTube videos that are reviewed by notable magazines does not bestow Wikipedia notability. Have a look yourself at the sources.
Magnolia677 (
talk)
22:40, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
That's an essay, just someone's unpopular opinion, not enough people supported it to promote it to a guideline.
Wikipedia:Notability (music) is the relevant guideline here. All guideline pages have a disclaimer at the top that reads This page documents an English Wikipedia notability guideline. It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.DreamFocus23:12, 17 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:N and
WP:GNG the subject must receive significant coverage in multiple reliable and independent secondary sources. Outside of the multiple sources, if you define that as numerical, the subject does not pass the only notability guideline that matters.
WP:Notability (music) can be used to presume notability for article creation but presumed notability can be rebutted. --
ARoseWolf (
Talk)
18:38, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
TwinTurbo I admire your fight for this article, I really do, but "bludgeoning us to death" with your repeated information is disruptive. You said your points and I am willing to accept we disagree. It is my view, as I stated and as indicated below, that the sources you call reliable are not, in fact, reliable and the sources you say give the subject "significant" coverage do not live up to the definition of that term. That does not take away from the regional, national or global significance of the subject to those who like him. Only that the criteria here determines that the subject of this article is not notable for inclusion here. --
ARoseWolf (
Talk)
21:45, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Please allow me to summarize the 10 sources mentioned above:
[17] - A three-paragraph introduction in "The Fader" to a video by Chris Yonge. This source contains no biographical information.
[18] - A two-paragraph article in "Earmilk", which contains the following biographical information (spelling error included):
CHRIS YONGE, who has been slowly grinding within the chilly city's booming music industry since the age of 19, when he decided to fully dive into his passion by running a recording studio where he fully honed his engineering & rapping skills... He now 25-year old upstart is now set to deliver the follow up to his excellent debut NEGATIVES LP, a three track EP entitled SS17 that has Chris exploring a much more reflective and Toronto-inpspired sound. Today EARMILK has been given the opportunity to debut the second single off of the project, a nostalgic slow-burner entitled 19 that has the rising artist reminiscing on his humble beginnings, assisted by fellow Toronto MC Kaelen.
[19] - A user-submitted blog post on "Banger of the Day".
[20] - An article in "The Hype Magazine" which says the following about Chris Yonge: "Featuring rising star Chris Yonge". That's it!
[21] - A user-submitted blog post on "Banger of the Day".
[22] - A review of a Chris Yonge album on a site called "Daily Chiefers", a
music-submission site where a reviewer decides which submissions to feature. This particular review was written by "Carrier" who has made "7724 POSTS" on the site.
[23] - An introduction to a Chris Yonge video in "Exclaim", which contains no biographical information. It features a quote about the video by Chris Yonge himself, which leans this source towards being a primary source.
[24] - A user-submitted blog post on "Banger of the Day".
[25] - A press release which mentions his name once.
First and foremost, thank you for your admiration ARoseWolf, but not once have I stated to "bludgeon anyone to death" nor is it my intention. I am merely engaging in discussion. And Magnolia677, Earmilk is a reputable secondary source on the artist (a spelling mistake does not make it any less reliable). To say the
Exclaim! reference has no biographical info is false. It contains points like:
"Yonge delivered his intro project in 2018 and is expected to release his debut full-length album this year." which is contributing substantially to his musical biography.
Also, a quote form the artist in a passage does not equate the source to being a primary source. Exclaim is a secondary source and a reputable one too. As with Fader, Hype, BroadwayWorld, newswire. Although it may be a sentence or two, they are still also reputable secondary sources which show mention to the musical career section of his biography. There are others mentioned in the article which is contributing to his biography. He definitely meets
WP:NM 1, as the sources mentioned here are published works that are written by somebody else about the musician. .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
22:35, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Not saying its the strongest source, but his work as a producer is still a valid reference to be included in the article to support his notability. .
TwinTurbo (
talk)
23:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
A source like that could only serve to bolster notability once it is established. It can not be used to confirm or affirm notability. --
ARoseWolf18:47, 20 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The key word or words in all of this is "mention", "mentions" and "mentioned". Significant coverage is not mentions. Also, if multiple (numerical) sources repeat the same information almost verbatim as other sources they are not considered multiple (intellectual) sources used for notability criteria, even if each source is reliable and secondary. They would all be considered ONE source. That is straight from the notes on the criteria itself. --
ARoseWolf16:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep as in the round there is enough coverage for
WP:GNG. The coverage is mainly career focussed but there is some biographical information so deletion is unnecessary in my view,
Atlantic306 (
talk)
01:17, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - As it's written it's not the strongest article in terms of sources, but sources are there and are in the article I just wish it had some stronger sources with more coverage. On the NowToronto article about the
cancelling of the Fringe festival I see reference to a Yonge-Dundas Square, but no reference to Chris Yonge, is he mentioned in that article? Otherwise I don't see anything verifying that he was supposed to play there. If it does mention him and I've overlooked it I'd say that would be yet another good reference to show notability. -
Aoidh (
talk)
03:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep. Subject has at least 3 sources of significant coverage for
WP:GNG. It does contain weak or irrelevant sources (editors should consider improving/removing these) but does include some which contribute to his music career for
WP:MUSICBIO too.
CAVETOWNFAN (
talk)
14:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep A nicely presented article on a notable musician. Some of the sources are a little low tier and would need to be improved before this could receive a B or GA rating, but that's no reason to delete.
FeydHuxtable (
talk)
17:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.