- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Stifle ( talk) 13:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Chloe Chua ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet WP:NOTABLE. Has won junior prizes in violin festivals not notable by WP standards (except for Menuhin prize, where winning the junior division category scarcely makes the person notable). No recordings, musical achievements or any comments by third-party reliable critics or commentators to justify notability. If she's still remembered or around in five years time, and there are suitable citations, she may then be ready for WP..... Smerus ( talk) 12:43, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- In fact I see that the editor who created this article has created several other articles about winners of non-notable violin prizes and I am wondering if these may all be WP:PROMOTION.-- Smerus ( talk) 12:54, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark • sniff) 18:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I put in a bunch of refideas for RS as well as some primary source articles that are independent of the subject on her talk page. If the outcome of this AFD is to delete because of WP:TOOSOON then this should be pushed back into draft space so that notability can be established with further events AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark • sniff) 19:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Promotional verbiage should be rewritten or scrubbed out, and any editors who have an association with Chua or the school/academy need to disclose their conflict of interest. AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark • sniff) 19:10, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:BASIC/ WP:GNG/ WP:MUSICBIO/ WP:NMUSICOTHER, and coverage such as: Chloe Chua — More Than an “Ordinary” Wunderkind (Interlude, 2021), Chloe Chua's distinguished Mozart almost steals the show in Singapore (BachTrack, 2020), Young violinist Chloe Chua: a video journey ahead of her Singapore Symphony concert (BachTrack, 2020), Singapore Embassy honors anniversary of Republic Day with Chloe Chua’s rendition of Turkish national anthem (Daily Sabah, 2020), VC Rising Star Chloe Chua – Mendelssohn Violin Concerto [2019] (Violin Channel, 2019), Violin Virtuoso Chloe Chua Wows At The Atlanta Festival Academy (WABE/NPR, 2019), A celebration in strings (China Daily, 2019), Different Duos Sunday #11: Kevin Loh (guitar) and Chloe Chua (violin, age 11) Play Piazzolla’s ‘Café 1930’ (Classic Guitar, 2018), Singapore 11-year-old violinist Chloe Chua wins first prize at prestigious Menuhin Competition (Straits Times, 2018), The Menuhin Competition Richmond 2021 Is A Go (NPR, 2021, "It’s known as the “Olympics for the violin.”). The Yehudi Menuhin International Competition for Young Violinists win appears to be significant and well-known, in how it is reported and how it is mentioned repeatedly in reports about Chua, who is also frequently covered in publications dedicated to a notable music sub-culture. Beccaynr ( talk) 19:29, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- These refs are all in the article. But they don't alas amount to WP:NOTABILITY, as I mention in the nomination. nor do they show that she is 'frequently' covered. Nor is playing the Tuskih national anthem a particualrly notable achievement.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:51, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment None of these references are in the article, diff, and to clarify my comment, per WP:MUSICBIO, she "Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition," and per WP:NMUSICOTHER, she appears to be "frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable music sub-culture," that is WP:SUSTAINED over time, and several of the sources cited above offer in-depth coverage, including biographical information, per WP:BASIC and WP:GNG. Beccaynr ( talk) 19:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep I do not have any connection to Chloe Chua or any other person I have written about and I am not trying to promote their work onto an educational platform like Wikipedia. On the basis of the other articles I have created, people like Stella Chen, In Mo Yang, and Kevin Zhu have won notable competition prizes and I would say that they should be passed. You could argue with Mone Hattori but I would say she has been included in more well known like the Strad and theViolinChannel. This also applies to Chloe Chua. If needed, we can push the page into a draft space like AngusW🐶🐶F had previously mentioned if it is too soon. WP:MUSICBIO can be the basis of the decision to let this article pass and seeing how Chua has won prizes, have had works like theViolinChannel, has appeared on FTV News and has performed for the Embassy of Singapore in Ankara to record a rendition of the Turkish National Anthem in celebration of Turkey's Republic Day and was invited by Saudi Arabia's General Authority for Culture to perform at two recitals in Riyadh and Jeddah. I think this should apply as notable on the topic for Chloe Chua and if it doesn't we can put this on into a draft space for any future notablity. -- JeffreyViolin ( talk) 20;03, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Notability is
WP:NOTTEMPORARY,
once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage
and there does not appear to be any need to userfy this article given the significant coverage of Chua and the multiple notability guidelines that Chua appears to meet. Beccaynr ( talk) 20:06, 24 March 2021 (UTC) - Weak Keep per criteria 9 of WP:NMUSIC. While I sympathize with Smerus as to the potential of this artist to not have a sustained career in music, we have to look at policy as written. She won first place in a major international competition, even if it was in the junior category. There is also plenty of RS. That satisfies our inclusion policy. This is no different than all the minor athlete articles that squeak by AFD just barely. We follow policy rather than WP:IDONTLIKEIT reasoning. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep per general coverage, and the fact she has made her debut as a soloist playing a concerto with a first-class orchestra now Reviews of her work with SSO and getting reviews from various countries, so it's not a case of parochialism. While her major prize was in the younger category, it should also be noted she won when she was 11 against 15 year-olds [and the join-winner Christian Li set a new record for the youngest winner at 10 - they were born in the same year] Bumbubookworm ( talk) 03:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:MUSICBIO for having won awards or contests. Expertwikiguy ( talk) 23:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep I think the other comments are right, but to reiterate,
WP:MUSICBIO at point 9 says
Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition.
She won first place at the Menuhin, which is a major music competition, and therefore meets the criterion. Kohlrabi Pickle ( talk) 12:45, 28 March 2021 (UTC)- And for clarity (though I did a different version of this article here), I have no association with her or her academy. Kohlrabi Pickle ( talk) 12:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - Satisfies musical notability, and marginally satisfies [[[WP:GNG|general notability]], and that is good enough. Robert McClenon ( talk) 00:18, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep, as meets WP:MUSICBIO thru winning major music competition. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:58, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Stifle ( talk) 13:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Chloe Chua ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet WP:NOTABLE. Has won junior prizes in violin festivals not notable by WP standards (except for Menuhin prize, where winning the junior division category scarcely makes the person notable). No recordings, musical achievements or any comments by third-party reliable critics or commentators to justify notability. If she's still remembered or around in five years time, and there are suitable citations, she may then be ready for WP..... Smerus ( talk) 12:43, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- In fact I see that the editor who created this article has created several other articles about winners of non-notable violin prizes and I am wondering if these may all be WP:PROMOTION.-- Smerus ( talk) 12:54, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark • sniff) 18:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I put in a bunch of refideas for RS as well as some primary source articles that are independent of the subject on her talk page. If the outcome of this AFD is to delete because of WP:TOOSOON then this should be pushed back into draft space so that notability can be established with further events AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark • sniff) 19:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Promotional verbiage should be rewritten or scrubbed out, and any editors who have an association with Chua or the school/academy need to disclose their conflict of interest. AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark • sniff) 19:10, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:BASIC/ WP:GNG/ WP:MUSICBIO/ WP:NMUSICOTHER, and coverage such as: Chloe Chua — More Than an “Ordinary” Wunderkind (Interlude, 2021), Chloe Chua's distinguished Mozart almost steals the show in Singapore (BachTrack, 2020), Young violinist Chloe Chua: a video journey ahead of her Singapore Symphony concert (BachTrack, 2020), Singapore Embassy honors anniversary of Republic Day with Chloe Chua’s rendition of Turkish national anthem (Daily Sabah, 2020), VC Rising Star Chloe Chua – Mendelssohn Violin Concerto [2019] (Violin Channel, 2019), Violin Virtuoso Chloe Chua Wows At The Atlanta Festival Academy (WABE/NPR, 2019), A celebration in strings (China Daily, 2019), Different Duos Sunday #11: Kevin Loh (guitar) and Chloe Chua (violin, age 11) Play Piazzolla’s ‘Café 1930’ (Classic Guitar, 2018), Singapore 11-year-old violinist Chloe Chua wins first prize at prestigious Menuhin Competition (Straits Times, 2018), The Menuhin Competition Richmond 2021 Is A Go (NPR, 2021, "It’s known as the “Olympics for the violin.”). The Yehudi Menuhin International Competition for Young Violinists win appears to be significant and well-known, in how it is reported and how it is mentioned repeatedly in reports about Chua, who is also frequently covered in publications dedicated to a notable music sub-culture. Beccaynr ( talk) 19:29, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- These refs are all in the article. But they don't alas amount to WP:NOTABILITY, as I mention in the nomination. nor do they show that she is 'frequently' covered. Nor is playing the Tuskih national anthem a particualrly notable achievement.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:51, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment None of these references are in the article, diff, and to clarify my comment, per WP:MUSICBIO, she "Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition," and per WP:NMUSICOTHER, she appears to be "frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable music sub-culture," that is WP:SUSTAINED over time, and several of the sources cited above offer in-depth coverage, including biographical information, per WP:BASIC and WP:GNG. Beccaynr ( talk) 19:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep I do not have any connection to Chloe Chua or any other person I have written about and I am not trying to promote their work onto an educational platform like Wikipedia. On the basis of the other articles I have created, people like Stella Chen, In Mo Yang, and Kevin Zhu have won notable competition prizes and I would say that they should be passed. You could argue with Mone Hattori but I would say she has been included in more well known like the Strad and theViolinChannel. This also applies to Chloe Chua. If needed, we can push the page into a draft space like AngusW🐶🐶F had previously mentioned if it is too soon. WP:MUSICBIO can be the basis of the decision to let this article pass and seeing how Chua has won prizes, have had works like theViolinChannel, has appeared on FTV News and has performed for the Embassy of Singapore in Ankara to record a rendition of the Turkish National Anthem in celebration of Turkey's Republic Day and was invited by Saudi Arabia's General Authority for Culture to perform at two recitals in Riyadh and Jeddah. I think this should apply as notable on the topic for Chloe Chua and if it doesn't we can put this on into a draft space for any future notablity. -- JeffreyViolin ( talk) 20;03, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Notability is
WP:NOTTEMPORARY,
once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage
and there does not appear to be any need to userfy this article given the significant coverage of Chua and the multiple notability guidelines that Chua appears to meet. Beccaynr ( talk) 20:06, 24 March 2021 (UTC) - Weak Keep per criteria 9 of WP:NMUSIC. While I sympathize with Smerus as to the potential of this artist to not have a sustained career in music, we have to look at policy as written. She won first place in a major international competition, even if it was in the junior category. There is also plenty of RS. That satisfies our inclusion policy. This is no different than all the minor athlete articles that squeak by AFD just barely. We follow policy rather than WP:IDONTLIKEIT reasoning. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep per general coverage, and the fact she has made her debut as a soloist playing a concerto with a first-class orchestra now Reviews of her work with SSO and getting reviews from various countries, so it's not a case of parochialism. While her major prize was in the younger category, it should also be noted she won when she was 11 against 15 year-olds [and the join-winner Christian Li set a new record for the youngest winner at 10 - they were born in the same year] Bumbubookworm ( talk) 03:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:MUSICBIO for having won awards or contests. Expertwikiguy ( talk) 23:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep I think the other comments are right, but to reiterate,
WP:MUSICBIO at point 9 says
Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition.
She won first place at the Menuhin, which is a major music competition, and therefore meets the criterion. Kohlrabi Pickle ( talk) 12:45, 28 March 2021 (UTC)- And for clarity (though I did a different version of this article here), I have no association with her or her academy. Kohlrabi Pickle ( talk) 12:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - Satisfies musical notability, and marginally satisfies [[[WP:GNG|general notability]], and that is good enough. Robert McClenon ( talk) 00:18, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep, as meets WP:MUSICBIO thru winning major music competition. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:58, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.