The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Consensus is the content should not be deleted. The discussion as to whether keep or merge (and if so, which target) does not require continuation of this AfD. Star Mississippi 02:02, 14 May 2022 (UTC) reply

Bromance (American TV series)

Bromance (American TV series) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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Only non-primary sources are interviews and announcements, some in tabloids, and I'm not convinced that meets WP:GNG. PRODded by TenPoundHammer ( talk · contribs), who allegedly found no other usable sources in WP:BEFORE, but deprodded by Matt91486 ( talk · contribs), who added two of the current four non-primary sources. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 15:32, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and United States of America. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 15:32, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply
• Weak delete as prodder. One of the sources added has a very flippant, snarky tone that doesn't seem conducive to WP:SIGCOV and may be a disguised PR piece. The other secondary sources are just boilerplate "X is getting a show" coverage that also might be disguised press releases. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{( What did I screw up now?)} 15:34, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply

  Totally okay to hit Gawker for tone (it is a famous part of their shtick), but I think it is highly unlikely that it's a PR piece. matt91486 ( talk) 18:28, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply

• Comment If this article is deleted, then Bromance (Taiwanese TV series) will be moved to Bromance (TV series). – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 15:38, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply
• Keep -- for me, the coverage is sufficient to meet the GNG, as there are, as you say, four non primary sources. I don't think the article can really advance beyond a stub, but stubs are perfectly acceptable articles according to wikipedia policy. matt91486 ( talk) 18:28, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply

  Press releases and tabloids do not meet WP:GNG. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{( What did I screw up now?)} 19:16, 28 April 2022 (UTC) reply

• Keep Additional sources available such as this, this, and this. NemesisAT ( talk) 14:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC) reply

  The first two are press releases. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{( What did I screw up now?)} 18:15, 29 April 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete: Per Nom, or ATD Merge to the start-class Brody Jenner. I see no notability in a six episode show, sourced largely by sites in the "External links" and six "This Might Not Have Been the Best Idea. Cabs are Here! But the Page You're Looking for Isn't." The show had somewhere in the neighborhood of 900,000 viewers, terrible ("underwhelming ratings") reviews, and a 2.6 rating. The star is notable but that is not a good reason to have a stand-- Otr500 ( talk) 13:58, 1 May 2022 (UTC) reply

  Comments: I am not sure what policy was referred to when it was stated " I don't think the article can really advance beyond a stub, but stubs are perfectly acceptable articles according to wikipedia policy.". The "stubs guideline" includes: A stub is an article that, although providing some useful information, lacks the breadth of coverage expected from an encyclopedia, and that is capable of expansion., and a reason why we merge articles where the combined content can possible expand one to be better, AND -- where content is not dependent on notability standards. We have editors that take any subject and make an article that would be better presented in another article. A PERMASTUB can be acceptable but this subject did not add to or become permanent fixture on Jenner, so a merge/redirect is likely a better direction. -- Otr500 ( talk) 13:58, 1 May 2022 (UTC) reply

  Links being dead is irrelevant especially when they are easily retrievable via the Wayback Machine, as I have now done for this article. NemesisAT ( talk) 14:03, 1 May 2022 (UTC) reply

  Reply: Thank you but I was specifically referring to the episodes.

  PLEASE NOTE: Links being dead are absolutely relevant. When notability is questioned (tags or AFD) we do not have to accept using dead links or have to dig around looking or otherwise researching to try to fix link problems to determine if notability exists. We have sources so that others can check to see where the information came from and that there is no [[WP:OR|original research, plagiarism, synthesis, or indiscrimininate information. WP:BURDEN is policy. INCITE, WP:WHYCITE, WP:INTEXT, and Wikipedia:INTEGRITY are guidelines that we use to verify the subject and content. This does not, however, change the fact that a merge would be a better solution or deletion as not notable. -- Otr500 ( talk) 15:03, 1 May 2022 (UTC) reply

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
  1. Osegueda, Mike (2008-06-20). "Brody Jenner's 'Bromance' takes reality TV to a new low". The Fresno Bee. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

     The article notes: "I speak, of course, about "Bromance."I have no problem with people of the same sex marrying each other, but I do have a problem with Brody Jenner, his new MTV reality show and the whole idea of "Bromance" -- that grown men would compete on television to be part of the entourage of Bruce Jenner's son. ... Either that or "Bromance," and its reality TV inbreeding, is a new low of faux-celebrity worship."

  2. Hiltbrand, David (2009-01-03). "Get real, MTV - The channel, in a ratings recession, plans to unload 16 (!) new reality shows. If they're all like the first, there's a real raunch-fest ahead". The Philadelphia Inquirer. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

     The article notes: "What has me in high dudgeon is that MTV, trying to halt a precipitous ratings slide, has just announced a slate of 16 new reality shows. If they're anything like Bromance, which the channel debuted this week, I'm putting a parental lock on MTV and throwing away the key. Bromance gives nine young men the dubious opportunity to join the posse of vapid Hollywood club kid Brody Jenner. At the start of this dismal and derivative show, the nine candidates are yanked out of their beds in the middle of the night by hulking security guards who throw black hoods over the guys' heads and frog-march them in their skivvies into a van."

  3. Martin, Patti (2008-12-28). "He'll Be Your New Best Friend. Matawan's Michael Flatley kindes a 'Bromance' on MTV". Asbury Park Press. Archived from the original on 2022-05-02. Retrieved 2022-05-02 – via Newspapers.com.

     The article notes: "Starring Brody Jenner (Bruce Jenner's son and, more importantly, the on-and-off again love interest of "The Hills" star Lauren Conrad), the show takes a group of regular guys from around the country and brings them to Los Angeles to compete for the coolest chance of a lifetime, to become best buds with Jenner and live the luxe life right out of a magazine. ... While battling for bromance, the contestants spend their time in a frat house in L.A. or on group "dream dates," including skydiving in Las Vegas, cruising on a 50-foot yacht and hanging out with Playboy Playmates."

  4. "Brody Jenner: 'Bromance' Winner 'Loyal, Down To Earth'". WRC-TV. 2009-02-05. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

     The article notes: "Brody Jenner has found his new bro. Luke, from Medford, Mass., was the winner of MTV’s first season of “Bromance,” which chronicled Brody’s search for a new pal. Nine guys from across the country were flown to LA and put through a series of challenges to determine who the best fit was for Brody’s crew."

  5. "MTV goes looking for 'Bromance'". Press-Register. Zap2it. 2008-06-13. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

     The article notes: "The show, called "Bromance" and executive produced by Ryan Seacrest, has secured a six-episode commitment.  Part goof on shows like "The Bachelor" and part capitalization on pop-cultural touchstones "Superbad" and "Entourage," the show will bring guys from around the country to L.A., where they will hang with Jenner and take part in challenges ranging from skydiving into Las Vegas to serving as Jenner's wingman."

  6. "'Bromance' is in the air for two U. Central Florida students". UWIRE. 2009-01-07. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

     The article notes: "After a long, intimidating audition process, Orlando residents Femi Borisade, Jered Getman and Chris Favis, along with six other men from around the country, learned that they were going to spend the next weeks vying for "Bromance." ... The reality show features nine 20-something males competing for a "bromance" with Brody Jenner, step-brother of socialite Kim Kardashian, and star of MTV's "The Hills." ... The episode ended with one contestant voluntarily leaving and another getting eliminated in Jenner's hot tub."

  7. Getlen, Larry (2008-12-28). "Over the 'Hills'". New York Post. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

     The article provides two paragraphs of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "Party boy Brody Jenner, the on-again, off-again love interest of Lauren Conrad, stars in “Bromance,” a reality series that aims to find the party bond a brother figure to bond with. MTV is thinking Matt Damon and Ben Affleck or George Clooney and Brad Pitt, but since Jenner bears no resemblance to those movie stars, it will be interesting to see what MTV comes up with. Nine guys live in a frat house and are sent on group “dream dates,” like skydiving in Las Vegas, cruising the Pacific on a 50-foot yacht and hanging out with Playboy playmates. Jenner scrutinizes each potential bro to see who always has his back. Brace yourself for lots of limos, , lingerie parties, blowup dolls, bar brawls, backstabbing and emotional breakdowns."

  8. Nordyke, Kimberly (2008-06-09). ""Bromance" in air for "Hills" co-star Jenner". The Hollywood Reporter. Archived from the original on 2022-05-02. Retrieved 2022-05-02 – via Reuters]].

     The article notes: "“The Hills” co-star Brody Jenner is getting his own MTV series. The network has committed to six episodes of “Bromance,” which has been the subject of recent online attention. The show, from Ryan Seacrest’s production company, will feature a group of “regular guys” who come to Hollywood and compete in a series of challenges, from skydiving to dealing with the paparazzi -- in hopes of being chosen by Jenner to become part of his entourage."

  9. Sayles, Matt (2008-06-10). "Brody Jenner Looking for Bromance on MTV". People. Associated Press. Archived from the original on 2022-05-02. Retrieved 2022-05-02.

     The article notes: "Challenges will include skydiving into Las Vegas, navigating paparazzi and being Jenner’s wingman."

  10. Bruno, Mike (2008-12-31). "'The City,' 'Bromance' premieres score weak ratings". Entertainment Weekly. Archived from the original on 2022-05-02. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

      The article provides one sentence of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "Monday’s 9 p.m. series premiere of Brody Jenner’s competition show, Bromance, fared even worse, attracting just 963,00 viewers."

  11. Schneider, Michael (2008-06-09). "MTV taps Jenner for 'Bromance'. Contestants to vie for 'bro' status with 'Hills' star". Variety. Archived from the original on 2022-05-02. Retrieved 2022-05-02.

      The article notes: "MTV has given a six-episode commitment to “Bromance,” which follows “The Hills” star Brody Jenner as he auditions a group of dudes to fill his “bro” vacancy. ... Seacrest and Jenner will exec produce with Eric Podwall and Eliot Goldberg. Jason Henry and Kathy Sutula co-created the project."

  12. Morago, Greg (2009-03-20). "Dude, male bonding isn't dead bros: Buddy shows, films feature bromances". Houston Chronicle. Archived from the original on 2022-05-01. Retrieved 2022-05-01.

      The article provides two sentences of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "Brody Jenner stood by his man, Luke, in the final episode of Bromance, ending one of pop culture's more curious chapters of high-profile male bonding. But just because the MTV reality series has concluded is no reason to assume brotherly love is a dead trend. ... If you miss observing the intricacies of man-on-man friendship that made Bromance so very special, check out ..."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Bromance to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard ( talk) 00:33, 2 May 2022 (UTC) reply

• Merge to Brody Jenner. The sourcing is a little thin, and while it's possible to make a weak GNG claim, per WP:NOPAGE we don't need a stand-alone article. All of the sourcing is about Jenner, routine industry announcements, or very brief criticism, and that can be summarized in a section at the bio page. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:25, 6 May 2022 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 19:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC) reply

• Keep or Merge to The Hills (TV Series). While not successful, it was still a program on a major television channel with ties to both a famous actor and other (at the time) popular show. However, as a spinoff of The Hills (TV show) it would seem more appropriate to merge the two related television series rather than put the article into Brody Jenner's biographical page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A MINOTAUR ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 6 May 2022 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.