- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 01:48, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
- Ben Sures ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP of a musician, with no strong pass of WP:NMUSIC and little quality reliable sourcing to support it. The strongest claims here are that he won an award that is not notable enough to pass NMUSIC #8, and the source for the fact is the award's own self-published website about itself, and that one non-notable critic for one alt-weekly newspaper named his album as one of her favourites one year, which is not any NMUSIC criterion at all. And apart from that critic, the only two reliable sources here are deadlinks in local coverage from his own local area, one of which Waybacks as a brief namecheck of his existence in an article that's primarily about Del Barber, and the other one is entirely unretrievable from either Wayback or ProQuest and therefore unverifiable. This is not enough to pass NMUSIC or GNG. Bearcat ( talk) 06:43, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Delete the article lacks good reliable sourcing. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 17:22, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Sures has won a category in the John Lennon Songwriting Contest http://jlsc.com/winners/2005a/winners.php which is itself notable /info/en/?search=John_Lennon_Songwriting_Contest Ross-c ( talk) 20:51, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- The simple existence of a Wikipedia article about an award is not, in and of itself, enough to make that award one that confers notability per NMUSIC #8 — that attaches to awards on the top tier of notability, such as the Junos or the Grammys or the Polaris or the Brits, not to every music award that exists at all. And, in fact, the John Lennon Songwriting Competition's article is so poorly sourced that I've had to nominate it for AFD discussion too. To be notable enough to make a musician notable for winning it, the award has to be one for which the media cover the award presentation as news — an award is not notable enough to meet that standard if you have to rely on the award's own self-published website about itself as proof because media coverage of the announcement is lacking. Bearcat ( talk) 15:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 08:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 08:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
- Weak Keep Nominator is spot on with assessment of the Lennon Award and of the weaknesses of the references given in article. However, a google of his name finds among many social media and trivial performance announcements a few instances of decent coverage and non-promotional third party reviews, http://www.vueweekly.com/ben-sures/ is one example. Yeah, the coverage is kind of small time, but cumulative enough to signify the subject is worthy of encyclopedic importance. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 13:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:14, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 05:15, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
- Delete. Insufficient sourcing to pass GNG or even V; most source links are dead. Awards only create the presumption of notability, and the John Lennon Songwriting Contest has itself been deleted as non-notable. Sandstein 07:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. For someone who has had such a long career, the level of coverage isn't massively impressive, but there's enough to merit an article, e.g. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11]. -- Michig ( talk) 08:11, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 01:48, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
- Ben Sures ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP of a musician, with no strong pass of WP:NMUSIC and little quality reliable sourcing to support it. The strongest claims here are that he won an award that is not notable enough to pass NMUSIC #8, and the source for the fact is the award's own self-published website about itself, and that one non-notable critic for one alt-weekly newspaper named his album as one of her favourites one year, which is not any NMUSIC criterion at all. And apart from that critic, the only two reliable sources here are deadlinks in local coverage from his own local area, one of which Waybacks as a brief namecheck of his existence in an article that's primarily about Del Barber, and the other one is entirely unretrievable from either Wayback or ProQuest and therefore unverifiable. This is not enough to pass NMUSIC or GNG. Bearcat ( talk) 06:43, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Delete the article lacks good reliable sourcing. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 17:22, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Sures has won a category in the John Lennon Songwriting Contest http://jlsc.com/winners/2005a/winners.php which is itself notable /info/en/?search=John_Lennon_Songwriting_Contest Ross-c ( talk) 20:51, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- The simple existence of a Wikipedia article about an award is not, in and of itself, enough to make that award one that confers notability per NMUSIC #8 — that attaches to awards on the top tier of notability, such as the Junos or the Grammys or the Polaris or the Brits, not to every music award that exists at all. And, in fact, the John Lennon Songwriting Competition's article is so poorly sourced that I've had to nominate it for AFD discussion too. To be notable enough to make a musician notable for winning it, the award has to be one for which the media cover the award presentation as news — an award is not notable enough to meet that standard if you have to rely on the award's own self-published website about itself as proof because media coverage of the announcement is lacking. Bearcat ( talk) 15:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 08:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 08:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
- Weak Keep Nominator is spot on with assessment of the Lennon Award and of the weaknesses of the references given in article. However, a google of his name finds among many social media and trivial performance announcements a few instances of decent coverage and non-promotional third party reviews, http://www.vueweekly.com/ben-sures/ is one example. Yeah, the coverage is kind of small time, but cumulative enough to signify the subject is worthy of encyclopedic importance. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 13:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:14, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 05:15, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
- Delete. Insufficient sourcing to pass GNG or even V; most source links are dead. Awards only create the presumption of notability, and the John Lennon Songwriting Contest has itself been deleted as non-notable. Sandstein 07:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. For someone who has had such a long career, the level of coverage isn't massively impressive, but there's enough to merit an article, e.g. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11]. -- Michig ( talk) 08:11, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.