- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Daniel ( talk) 01:40, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Becca Gilmore
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Fails WP:NHOCKEY having not played at the levels required for that notability, does not meet GNG otherwise JW 1961 Talk 21:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:32, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete: Agree with nom; no coverage beyond routine sports coverage debarred from contributing to notability. Ravenswing 03:36, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete college newspapers cover college sports, that does not mean we have to treat every college sportsperson mention in a college newspaper as notable. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:04, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep As per GNG: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject": for example 1 , 2, 3. In addition, college newspapers are reilable sources, independent of the subject. SportsOlympic ( talk) 12:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- College papers wouldn't be considered independent if they are covering their own schools players as it would just be the school promoting its own team/players. Articles by NHL.com get treated the same way when they write articles about nhl players. They are reliable for the facts in them, but they do not show notability since they are not independent. - DJSasso ( talk) 16:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep There's enough articles from independent sources that either have her as the main subject or cover her beyond just a passing mention to satisfy the
purposes of the general notability guidelines - to have a standalone article which is both balanced and reliable. And she has been listed as one of the higher-end North American prospects in women's hockey, so there's a good chance that the article's going to have an enduring relevancy - an
{{ notability|biographies}}template might be a better outcome than outright deleting the page. NHCLS ( talk) 12:52, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep While it is true that a player for a college sports team is not notable by itself, it is showing that she also played for Team USA in the IIHF Hockey Championships. On Harvard Crimson women's ice hockey page, other players who were selected to play on IIHF are listed as "notable" or "players with international experience" and have their own Wikipedia page. If she has international experience, she should be listed on the team's page as well. Examples being Josephine Pucci and Michelle Picard. I also see many good sources. It would be useful to include career stats and more information about the player, but I cannot say it would be accurate for me to push for deletion unless all other pages are deleted. BenKlesc ( talk) 13:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note that Gilmore played for the US at the U18 IIHF Hockey Championships, not the senior national team. She did lead the team in scoring at the 2015 U18 WC though, and she did play in three different championships, which is a very rare occurrence. She's also about 5th in US U18 WC scoring history, behind Amanda Pelkey and ahead of Jincy Dunne, which I'd argue is pretty significant NHCLS ( talk) 13:51, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Important distinction I missed. I do agree with your assessment that she does have important international experience having played in three championships, which makes a distinction from other players on the team. Also for its use of large variety of sources, I will say I still agree that article should not be deleted. You make great points. It could use work though. BenKlesc ( talk) 14:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Fails to meet WP:GNG. The references provided by SportsOlympic above are all non-independent as they are by their colleges paper promoting the schools players/team and the same goes for the USA hockey one. - DJSasso ( talk) 16:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- The Harvard Crimson is independent of the university NHCLS ( talk) 18:01, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- It isn't run by the university, but it exists to talk about things at the university, essentially promoting it which as such doesn't indicate notability because they would talk about any athlete that does something interesting from the university. It is pretty much the definition of routine and non-independant. - DJSasso ( talk) 12:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- By that definition, any American newspaper wouldn't be independent sources for any coverage of American sports since they exist to talk about things in the country and talk about athletes from the United States that do something interesting NHCLS ( talk) 12:56, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- The difference is that a college paper will cover every player as opposed to only the notable ones. A comparable is a small town newspaper covering the local high school star. The fact that paper covered them does not go towards considering them notable. A college paper like a small town paper is hyper focused on its area. Another comparable is local politicians, they get covered in their local papers, but unless they are in a major center like New York we say their coverage is just routine because of course the local paper will cover local politicians. In the case of a college paper, their local is the school so covering their athletes is just run of the mill routine coverage. - DJSasso ( talk) 22:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- The article does however include good national news references such as Boston Herald, Boston Globe, New England Hockey Journal. An article can include non-notable references, but it must not rely on them exclusively. This article appears to source multiple significant and independent news publications. BenKlesc ( talk) 12:32, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
- Yes definitely there are some, but the Herald and Globe articles are not in depth and are just passing mentions/routine. The New England Hockey Jounral is presumably more but I can't read the full article so can't tell. - DJSasso ( talk) 19:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vaticidalprophet ( talk) 01:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vaticidalprophet ( talk) 01:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - she passes general notability because of WP:SIGCOV. Women's sports does not get the kind of coverage that men's sports does. Bearian ( talk) 21:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Daniel ( talk) 01:40, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Becca Gilmore
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Becca Gilmore ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NHOCKEY having not played at the levels required for that notability, does not meet GNG otherwise JW 1961 Talk 21:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:32, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete: Agree with nom; no coverage beyond routine sports coverage debarred from contributing to notability. Ravenswing 03:36, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete college newspapers cover college sports, that does not mean we have to treat every college sportsperson mention in a college newspaper as notable. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:04, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep As per GNG: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject": for example 1 , 2, 3. In addition, college newspapers are reilable sources, independent of the subject. SportsOlympic ( talk) 12:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- College papers wouldn't be considered independent if they are covering their own schools players as it would just be the school promoting its own team/players. Articles by NHL.com get treated the same way when they write articles about nhl players. They are reliable for the facts in them, but they do not show notability since they are not independent. - DJSasso ( talk) 16:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep There's enough articles from independent sources that either have her as the main subject or cover her beyond just a passing mention to satisfy the
purposes of the general notability guidelines - to have a standalone article which is both balanced and reliable. And she has been listed as one of the higher-end North American prospects in women's hockey, so there's a good chance that the article's going to have an enduring relevancy - an
{{ notability|biographies}}template might be a better outcome than outright deleting the page. NHCLS ( talk) 12:52, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep While it is true that a player for a college sports team is not notable by itself, it is showing that she also played for Team USA in the IIHF Hockey Championships. On Harvard Crimson women's ice hockey page, other players who were selected to play on IIHF are listed as "notable" or "players with international experience" and have their own Wikipedia page. If she has international experience, she should be listed on the team's page as well. Examples being Josephine Pucci and Michelle Picard. I also see many good sources. It would be useful to include career stats and more information about the player, but I cannot say it would be accurate for me to push for deletion unless all other pages are deleted. BenKlesc ( talk) 13:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note that Gilmore played for the US at the U18 IIHF Hockey Championships, not the senior national team. She did lead the team in scoring at the 2015 U18 WC though, and she did play in three different championships, which is a very rare occurrence. She's also about 5th in US U18 WC scoring history, behind Amanda Pelkey and ahead of Jincy Dunne, which I'd argue is pretty significant NHCLS ( talk) 13:51, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Important distinction I missed. I do agree with your assessment that she does have important international experience having played in three championships, which makes a distinction from other players on the team. Also for its use of large variety of sources, I will say I still agree that article should not be deleted. You make great points. It could use work though. BenKlesc ( talk) 14:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Fails to meet WP:GNG. The references provided by SportsOlympic above are all non-independent as they are by their colleges paper promoting the schools players/team and the same goes for the USA hockey one. - DJSasso ( talk) 16:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- The Harvard Crimson is independent of the university NHCLS ( talk) 18:01, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- It isn't run by the university, but it exists to talk about things at the university, essentially promoting it which as such doesn't indicate notability because they would talk about any athlete that does something interesting from the university. It is pretty much the definition of routine and non-independant. - DJSasso ( talk) 12:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- By that definition, any American newspaper wouldn't be independent sources for any coverage of American sports since they exist to talk about things in the country and talk about athletes from the United States that do something interesting NHCLS ( talk) 12:56, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- The difference is that a college paper will cover every player as opposed to only the notable ones. A comparable is a small town newspaper covering the local high school star. The fact that paper covered them does not go towards considering them notable. A college paper like a small town paper is hyper focused on its area. Another comparable is local politicians, they get covered in their local papers, but unless they are in a major center like New York we say their coverage is just routine because of course the local paper will cover local politicians. In the case of a college paper, their local is the school so covering their athletes is just run of the mill routine coverage. - DJSasso ( talk) 22:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- The article does however include good national news references such as Boston Herald, Boston Globe, New England Hockey Journal. An article can include non-notable references, but it must not rely on them exclusively. This article appears to source multiple significant and independent news publications. BenKlesc ( talk) 12:32, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
- Yes definitely there are some, but the Herald and Globe articles are not in depth and are just passing mentions/routine. The New England Hockey Jounral is presumably more but I can't read the full article so can't tell. - DJSasso ( talk) 19:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vaticidalprophet ( talk) 01:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vaticidalprophet ( talk) 01:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - she passes general notability because of WP:SIGCOV. Women's sports does not get the kind of coverage that men's sports does. Bearian ( talk) 21:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.