The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) — Music1201 ^talk 15:57, 31 July 2016 (UTC) reply

Bec Korfball Club

Bec Korfball Club (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Non-notable team. Although England Korfball list Bec as among their "Premier League", there is no indication that this is a notable league (in the same manner that the English Premier football league is notable). No significant, independent coverage can be found for this team. WikiDan61 ^ChatMe! _ReadMe!! 22:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC) reply

Dear WikiDan61 - I am the current England captain for korfball and also the Chair of Bec Korfball Club so pretty well informed in this area. That being said, I am also a beginner when it comes to Wikipedia so do bear that in mind! I can confirm that the "Premier League" on the England Korfball site is the top level of competition for korfball in England (e.g. the equivalent of the English Premier League in football for our sport) so it is certainly notable.

In terms of independent coverage:

• Here is a piece in the SW Londoner about our attempts to win the national league including a video created by their team: http://www.swlondoner.co.uk/third-time-lucky-bec-korfball-club-hoping-score-play-off-semi-final-win-croydon/
• Here is a piece in the Tooting Daily Press on our club: http://tooting-news.dailyprss.co.uk/tabs/blog/2015/05/tooting-bec-korfball-club-season-report
• Here is a piece I wrote for the BBC about the sport: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/get-inspired/29744696

What else do I need to do to stop the page from being deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by KorfBen ( talk • contribs) 12:02, 4 July 2016 (UTC) reply

• @ KorfBen: The first two pieces, from the SW Londoner and the Tooting Daily Press are of the nature of local coverage, in the manner that any local paper might cover its local sports teams, not evidence of any particular widespread notability; while the third piece is hardly independent, having been written by you, an active member of the team trying to promote your sport. I wouldn't count any of these articles as contributing to the widespread notability of your team. Participation at the Premier League level would normally count for notability, but we'd need the independent coverage to verify that. It could be that the sport of korfball just doesn't receive enough notice for its participant teams to be notable. (I use, as an example, with no intent to denigrate korfball or its players, the game of tiddlywinks. Certainly Wikipedia has an article about the game, and even an article about the English Tiddlywinks Association, and yet its individual competitors (players or teams) would not likely be notable. Korfball may fall into a similar category.) WikiDan61 ^ChatMe! _ReadMe!! 13:11, 4 July 2016 (UTC) reply

@ WikiDan61: In the manner of many who use the phrase "with no intent to", you have managed to achieve exactly what you were supposedly trying not to. Comparing our sport to Tiddlywinks undermines the many people who commit their time to playing, coaching and organising the sport around the world. Unlike Tiddlywinks, Korfball is a sport, which is Olympic-recognised and has been in the World Games for decades. Although I see your point about the article being written by me, surely the fact that respected organisations such as the BBC and Sky Sports deem Korfball notable enough to feature should be enough for the inclusion of the top domestic teams on Wikipedia?

• @ KorfBen: As an IOC recognized sport (but not, at this time, an Olympic sport), Korfball deserves, and has received, coverage at Wikipedia. National-level teams (the English korfball team, the Netherlands korfball team, etc) might merit inclusion. Individual local teams require coverage as defined at WP:ORG, and as far as I can tell, Bec have not yet received that level of coverage. WikiDan61 ^ChatMe! _ReadMe!! 16:49, 4 July 2016 (UTC) reply

@ WikiDan61: Referring to Bec as a local team is incorrect. It is one of the largest and most successful korfball clubs in the UK. The Manchester United of korfball in the UK if you will. I do not understand why you are so keen to try and take down this page? As I think I have made clear, although it may not be notable for you, it is certainly notable for those who play our sport. What harm does it do by existing? As a side note, if you do insist on taking it down, I recommend you do the same for Trojans Korfball Club and Highbury Korfball Club.

• Comment Bec may well be "the Manchester United of Korfball", but lacking any significant sources, we can't assume that it is notable. The "harm it does by existing" is that Wikipedia has guidelines for what should be included, and those guidelines exist so that the facts of any particular article can be verified against the available reliable sources. If we ignore those guidelines, then Wikipedia can become a great pool of unverified facts, which reduces its value as a reference source. As for other korfball clubs, I refer you to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. WikiDan61 ^ChatMe! _ReadMe!! 15:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Uanfala ( talk) 19:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Uanfala ( talk) 19:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.