The result was delete.
I said most of what is relevant re. canvassing and SPA editors when I relisted the discussion, so I'll try to make it short. Fortunately, after relisting, discussion of the provided sources ensued with consensus being that their coverage is either not substantial or independent enough to meet the threshold of either WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. With no more sources mentioned, the only possibly outcome was deletion.
Regards So Why 06:38, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
![]() | If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
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This article was originally accepted at WP:AFC in 2010 apparently with some COI involvement. The acceptance may have been a dis-service to the subject of the article, as the subject does not appear to meet WP:MUSICBIO. The subject did have their 15 minutes of fame performing for Donald Trump, however this is not sufficient to establish notability despite some coverage of the performance and of Trump's reaction to it. The slew of largely self-published or IMDB sources in the article as originally accepted have not expanded to include significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. In addition, the article -- and its talk page -- have become a battleground between a number of unregistered accounts and WP:SPA accounts. Some of them appear to be detractors of the subject, and some of them are alleged to be the subject or to represent the subject. Some of the latter have also made allegations on the article talk page about named individuals that they claim are responsible for the negative editing. Although such contentious editing is not in itself a sufficient reason for deletion, in cases where notability is not established or is unclear, it contributes to the argument for deletion because Wikipedia should not be further risking unnecessary harm to the BLP (or to anyone else). The article has been protected twice for BLP violations. MPS1992 ( talk) 20:34, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
For further discussion, editors should also remember that not meeting WP:MUSICBIO does not make the subject automatically non-notable if WP:GNG is met. TonyTheTiger has pointed out some sources which have not been discussed by others. So if you wish to sway the discussion in a certain direction, do so by providing rational arguments.
The decision will be made, to answer the last question, when consensus has emerged but that requires people actually discussing whether the sources might be sufficient to establish notability under any guideline, not just
WP:MUSICBIO.
Comment it's clear that my opinion is not welcome nor worth much consideration here, but if you look at his entry as it currently stands, he was in two plays and went to school. I don't see how that, in any universe, makes him notable enough for inclusion. It's amazing to me that we are now going to spend at even more time debating if this random guy's self-created entry should stay up. As I have stated before, his performance was at an UNOFFICIAL inaugural ball, and there aren't Wikipedia pages for the other musical acts (DJ Freedom, The Reagan Years, The Mixx) that played it too. We don't have a Wikipedia page for the one of the other two hosts in that Miss Virginia pageant (Tiffany Haas, Miss Ohio 2002), so that wouldn't appear to be a high enough bar for inclusion. As many have already stated, his performance for Donald Trump (which Trump didn't ask for and was apparently surprised by) is the most notable thing he's done, and it was not covered in a positive light. If you do decide that he's notable enough to have his own entry, that will have to be mentioned. So an obscure musician's Wikipedia entry will basically be about how he performed for Trump at the request of a local branch of the Republican party and that performance was universally panned. Lovetoolistentocountry ( talk) 16:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment I've been made aware that my argument might have been too weak for consensus, and therefore, will add that the sources are also not enough to meet the requirements set by WP:GNG. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) ( talk) 16:16, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment on one source. I’ve already weighed in as a delete, but with this re-listing I think I could clarify the nature of the much cited Emmy nomination for the benefit of editors trying to gauge the importance of this subject’s nomination in relation to wikipedia notability. According to the source cited in this thread, his name was among a list of nominees from the Nashville TN market’s submission to the MidSouth Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, which encompasses any broadcast member station in Tennessee, North Carolina and Alabama. The Nashville list comprises 9 pages worth of names. I counted (yes, I really counted) 140 names on page 1. If we generously assume the other eight pages list an equal number of names, there are over 1000 people “nominated” from a single market. Add that to the probable numbers from the rest of the broadcast markets in the MidSouthChapter, then add it to all the other national regional chapters it’s fair to assume there are tens of thousands of people every year who can claim to be Emmy nominated. He is one among those tens of thousand. Maybe that’s good for including on a resume or LinkedIn profile, but as justification for an entry in an encyclopedia? Just to win one of these locale categories (which this subject didn’t do) is far, far from the same thing as being associated with what we think of as Emmy Winner’s per the National Awards. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 19:31, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment Is this going to be over and done with tomorrow? It's dragged on for weeks now and doesn't seem like it should be that difficult of a decision one way or the other. Lovetoolistentocountry ( talk) 01:58, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
The result was delete.
I said most of what is relevant re. canvassing and SPA editors when I relisted the discussion, so I'll try to make it short. Fortunately, after relisting, discussion of the provided sources ensued with consensus being that their coverage is either not substantial or independent enough to meet the threshold of either WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. With no more sources mentioned, the only possibly outcome was deletion.
Regards So Why 06:38, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
![]() | If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
This article was originally accepted at WP:AFC in 2010 apparently with some COI involvement. The acceptance may have been a dis-service to the subject of the article, as the subject does not appear to meet WP:MUSICBIO. The subject did have their 15 minutes of fame performing for Donald Trump, however this is not sufficient to establish notability despite some coverage of the performance and of Trump's reaction to it. The slew of largely self-published or IMDB sources in the article as originally accepted have not expanded to include significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. In addition, the article -- and its talk page -- have become a battleground between a number of unregistered accounts and WP:SPA accounts. Some of them appear to be detractors of the subject, and some of them are alleged to be the subject or to represent the subject. Some of the latter have also made allegations on the article talk page about named individuals that they claim are responsible for the negative editing. Although such contentious editing is not in itself a sufficient reason for deletion, in cases where notability is not established or is unclear, it contributes to the argument for deletion because Wikipedia should not be further risking unnecessary harm to the BLP (or to anyone else). The article has been protected twice for BLP violations. MPS1992 ( talk) 20:34, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
For further discussion, editors should also remember that not meeting WP:MUSICBIO does not make the subject automatically non-notable if WP:GNG is met. TonyTheTiger has pointed out some sources which have not been discussed by others. So if you wish to sway the discussion in a certain direction, do so by providing rational arguments.
The decision will be made, to answer the last question, when consensus has emerged but that requires people actually discussing whether the sources might be sufficient to establish notability under any guideline, not just
WP:MUSICBIO.
Comment it's clear that my opinion is not welcome nor worth much consideration here, but if you look at his entry as it currently stands, he was in two plays and went to school. I don't see how that, in any universe, makes him notable enough for inclusion. It's amazing to me that we are now going to spend at even more time debating if this random guy's self-created entry should stay up. As I have stated before, his performance was at an UNOFFICIAL inaugural ball, and there aren't Wikipedia pages for the other musical acts (DJ Freedom, The Reagan Years, The Mixx) that played it too. We don't have a Wikipedia page for the one of the other two hosts in that Miss Virginia pageant (Tiffany Haas, Miss Ohio 2002), so that wouldn't appear to be a high enough bar for inclusion. As many have already stated, his performance for Donald Trump (which Trump didn't ask for and was apparently surprised by) is the most notable thing he's done, and it was not covered in a positive light. If you do decide that he's notable enough to have his own entry, that will have to be mentioned. So an obscure musician's Wikipedia entry will basically be about how he performed for Trump at the request of a local branch of the Republican party and that performance was universally panned. Lovetoolistentocountry ( talk) 16:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment I've been made aware that my argument might have been too weak for consensus, and therefore, will add that the sources are also not enough to meet the requirements set by WP:GNG. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) ( talk) 16:16, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment on one source. I’ve already weighed in as a delete, but with this re-listing I think I could clarify the nature of the much cited Emmy nomination for the benefit of editors trying to gauge the importance of this subject’s nomination in relation to wikipedia notability. According to the source cited in this thread, his name was among a list of nominees from the Nashville TN market’s submission to the MidSouth Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, which encompasses any broadcast member station in Tennessee, North Carolina and Alabama. The Nashville list comprises 9 pages worth of names. I counted (yes, I really counted) 140 names on page 1. If we generously assume the other eight pages list an equal number of names, there are over 1000 people “nominated” from a single market. Add that to the probable numbers from the rest of the broadcast markets in the MidSouthChapter, then add it to all the other national regional chapters it’s fair to assume there are tens of thousands of people every year who can claim to be Emmy nominated. He is one among those tens of thousand. Maybe that’s good for including on a resume or LinkedIn profile, but as justification for an entry in an encyclopedia? Just to win one of these locale categories (which this subject didn’t do) is far, far from the same thing as being associated with what we think of as Emmy Winner’s per the National Awards. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 19:31, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment Is this going to be over and done with tomorrow? It's dragged on for weeks now and doesn't seem like it should be that difficult of a decision one way or the other. Lovetoolistentocountry ( talk) 01:58, 27 July 2017 (UTC)