- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Interviews are primary sources so the delete argument is the policy based one. Spartaz Humbug! 17:24, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- B.l.o.w. ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Seems to be a non-notable band. Found absolutely no coverage in reliable sources upon a Google search. They made no charts or won any awards either. Naturally, I'm also nominating these for deletion:
- Man and Goat Alike ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Legboot ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Pigs (b.l.o.w. album) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Legalise It (EP) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The only source used on all of these is [shroomin.co.uk a fansite dedicated to the band]. N Ø 07:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. So far, no significant news coverage about the subject, and the band seem to have failed WP:MUSICBIO. However, since it's an old band, they probably might have some sort of local news coverage, hence I leave this to other editors for further investigations.
Is Nutin 10:53, 13 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soltesh ( talk • contribs)
- Comment, I employed some of my clicking skills, and ended up on
https://david9lunas.co.uk/bio/, which notes "B.L.O.W sold well with their album “Pigs” with David as front man in the summer of 1995 that culminating in an MTV interview and acoustic performance that was reviewed favorably by London’s major music magazine, Kerrang amongst others." An MTV interview and a review in "amongst others" Kerrang sounds promising. I'll leave further sleuthing for dates and back issues, and then trawling through back issues of other music magazines of the same dates to others -- a facebook message to David Lunas on his artist page could maybe help here, it's quite possible he has stuff in personal archives. If there is sufficient notability here to warrant an article, merging all verifiable material to one article and redirecting the others will probably be a good idea.
2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 (
talk)
11:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Actually, I couldn't resist browsing around a bit more. There is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3oCKPhmvKM which may turn up further leads -- the album being discussed is probably what ended up going being pigs, and the event itself is the event that likely was the end of the band -- Richardson left b.l.o.w. to join Skunk Anansie 2 months after this video, where he first met them. Stoosh would be recorded and released in May 1996, and become one of the more recognizable rock sounds of the mid 90's. The video indicates that the upcoming album was almost finished -- presumably with Richardson, who met with Skunk Anansie on this very same night. The b.l.o.w. album as it would be eventually released -- after the smash success of Stoosh -- would only have a single writing credit of Richardson. The speculative juicy narrative writes itself. http://www.shroomin.co.uk/discography/discog-pigs.php shows a small kerrang review of pigs, which, while rather positive about the album, notes the album has been "too long coming" and "the buzz [around the band] now subsided". The claim that there *was* a buzz might mean there is more to be found in terms of sources. 2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 ( talk) 12:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate your efforts to save the band article but unless coverage is found in reliable, secondary sources then notability is not established. The band’s own website saying one of their albums sold well does not prove notability.—
N
Ø
12:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have no particular interest in "saving" the article other than the interest of Wikipedia. The own website(s) do nothing to establish notability -- I didn't intend to give the impression I believed otherwise, and I'm a bit surprised you came to that conclusion from what I posted. The secondary sources mentioned on the own website and fan site might. The mentioned MTV interview, which while likely a primary source --which should be a different interview than the one I linked earlier -- and isn't great for verifiability, does to some extent show notability. The favourable review in Kerrang "among others" might -- maybe also depending on what the mentioned others are, and the depth of their coverage. I'm not particularly inclined to go check what exists out there, but a prudent deletion nomination should do some effort to track these sources down, and I do believe that I've shown with a quick search and just looking what the leads we have link to show reliable sources than what is now used on Wikipedia. I would suggest at least tracking down the MTV interview, and the Kerrang reviews, maybe also the issues that distributed the earlier EPs. 2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 ( talk) 13:04, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- One more thing -- that Bruce Dickenson MTV interview from 1995 above? Wrong
Bruce Dickinson, or so it appears. Apparently there were two Bruce Dickinsons were at that event. There goes my juicy narrative (though it doesn't matter much for the core of the argument, that there is an MTV interview and Kerrang reviews out there)
2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 (
talk)
13:55, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- There's no suggestion that there was any other Bruce Dickinson at the awards other than the Iron Maiden singer – he mentions Maiden more than once during the interview, so I'm not sure why you assumed it was the member of B.l.o.w.
Tracking down an MTV interview from more than two decades ago is going to be almost impossible if it isn't on YouTube.Aha, the MTV interview must be this one [1] – it's not particularly useful, only one question in the four-minute interview actually provides any info about the band, rather than Little Angels, their description of their sound, or self-financed record label. As far as I know there are no online archives of Kerrang! magazine going back that far, so we would need to find someone who bought the issues back in 1995/1996 and has kept their collection. Richard3120 ( talk) 16:08, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- There's no suggestion that there was any other Bruce Dickinson at the awards other than the Iron Maiden singer – he mentions Maiden more than once during the interview, so I'm not sure why you assumed it was the member of B.l.o.w.
- I appreciate your efforts to save the band article but unless coverage is found in reliable, secondary sources then notability is not established. The band’s own website saying one of their albums sold well does not prove notability.—
N
Ø
12:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:01, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:02, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Keep We have good reason to believe that this band received significant coverage in reliable sources (for the subject of music) independent to the subject of the piece - Kerrang and MTV. We don't have to have those references (that's a page-quality issue, not a deletion one) just know that they exist per WP:NRV. PS - Redirect all other pages to the band page since they're clearly not notable independent of the band. FOARP ( talk) 13:18, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- The problem with that argument is, how do you cite those sources? At the moment we literally can't say anything more than "1. MTV interview. 2. Kerrang! live review." We have no dates, no authors, no links, no issue number, nothing. And we don't know if the coverage is significant or not – the live acoustic review could be a passing mention as a support act, for all we know. Richard3120 ( talk) 16:08, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Edit: OK, so the MTV interview could be expanded to "Interview, MTV Headbangers Ball, 1994"
Richard3120 (
talk)
16:23, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Which is a start, no? Ditto the Kerrang! review. Improving the citations is a page quality issue for which there is no
WP:Deadline
FOARP (
talk)
11:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's a start, but it also appears to be an end as well, especially as the MTV interview amounts to very little. And unless we can really improve the sourcing, it's likely to be brought to AfD again in the future, so in practice there IS a deadline for improving the article before it gets deleted. Richard3120 ( talk) 18:41, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- Which is a start, no? Ditto the Kerrang! review. Improving the citations is a page quality issue for which there is no
WP:Deadline
FOARP (
talk)
11:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- Add evidence of notability or delete SleepForever talk November 2018, 18:29 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 00:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 00:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - Seems non-notable to me. An MTV interview is not enough to warrant notability. Skirts89 ( talk) 16:14, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Interviews are primary sources so the delete argument is the policy based one. Spartaz Humbug! 17:24, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- B.l.o.w. ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Seems to be a non-notable band. Found absolutely no coverage in reliable sources upon a Google search. They made no charts or won any awards either. Naturally, I'm also nominating these for deletion:
- Man and Goat Alike ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Legboot ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Pigs (b.l.o.w. album) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Legalise It (EP) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The only source used on all of these is [shroomin.co.uk a fansite dedicated to the band]. N Ø 07:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. So far, no significant news coverage about the subject, and the band seem to have failed WP:MUSICBIO. However, since it's an old band, they probably might have some sort of local news coverage, hence I leave this to other editors for further investigations.
Is Nutin 10:53, 13 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soltesh ( talk • contribs)
- Comment, I employed some of my clicking skills, and ended up on
https://david9lunas.co.uk/bio/, which notes "B.L.O.W sold well with their album “Pigs” with David as front man in the summer of 1995 that culminating in an MTV interview and acoustic performance that was reviewed favorably by London’s major music magazine, Kerrang amongst others." An MTV interview and a review in "amongst others" Kerrang sounds promising. I'll leave further sleuthing for dates and back issues, and then trawling through back issues of other music magazines of the same dates to others -- a facebook message to David Lunas on his artist page could maybe help here, it's quite possible he has stuff in personal archives. If there is sufficient notability here to warrant an article, merging all verifiable material to one article and redirecting the others will probably be a good idea.
2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 (
talk)
11:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Actually, I couldn't resist browsing around a bit more. There is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3oCKPhmvKM which may turn up further leads -- the album being discussed is probably what ended up going being pigs, and the event itself is the event that likely was the end of the band -- Richardson left b.l.o.w. to join Skunk Anansie 2 months after this video, where he first met them. Stoosh would be recorded and released in May 1996, and become one of the more recognizable rock sounds of the mid 90's. The video indicates that the upcoming album was almost finished -- presumably with Richardson, who met with Skunk Anansie on this very same night. The b.l.o.w. album as it would be eventually released -- after the smash success of Stoosh -- would only have a single writing credit of Richardson. The speculative juicy narrative writes itself. http://www.shroomin.co.uk/discography/discog-pigs.php shows a small kerrang review of pigs, which, while rather positive about the album, notes the album has been "too long coming" and "the buzz [around the band] now subsided". The claim that there *was* a buzz might mean there is more to be found in terms of sources. 2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 ( talk) 12:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate your efforts to save the band article but unless coverage is found in reliable, secondary sources then notability is not established. The band’s own website saying one of their albums sold well does not prove notability.—
N
Ø
12:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have no particular interest in "saving" the article other than the interest of Wikipedia. The own website(s) do nothing to establish notability -- I didn't intend to give the impression I believed otherwise, and I'm a bit surprised you came to that conclusion from what I posted. The secondary sources mentioned on the own website and fan site might. The mentioned MTV interview, which while likely a primary source --which should be a different interview than the one I linked earlier -- and isn't great for verifiability, does to some extent show notability. The favourable review in Kerrang "among others" might -- maybe also depending on what the mentioned others are, and the depth of their coverage. I'm not particularly inclined to go check what exists out there, but a prudent deletion nomination should do some effort to track these sources down, and I do believe that I've shown with a quick search and just looking what the leads we have link to show reliable sources than what is now used on Wikipedia. I would suggest at least tracking down the MTV interview, and the Kerrang reviews, maybe also the issues that distributed the earlier EPs. 2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 ( talk) 13:04, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- One more thing -- that Bruce Dickenson MTV interview from 1995 above? Wrong
Bruce Dickinson, or so it appears. Apparently there were two Bruce Dickinsons were at that event. There goes my juicy narrative (though it doesn't matter much for the core of the argument, that there is an MTV interview and Kerrang reviews out there)
2001:1C04:1903:3900:F1E6:779D:147C:C652 (
talk)
13:55, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- There's no suggestion that there was any other Bruce Dickinson at the awards other than the Iron Maiden singer – he mentions Maiden more than once during the interview, so I'm not sure why you assumed it was the member of B.l.o.w.
Tracking down an MTV interview from more than two decades ago is going to be almost impossible if it isn't on YouTube.Aha, the MTV interview must be this one [1] – it's not particularly useful, only one question in the four-minute interview actually provides any info about the band, rather than Little Angels, their description of their sound, or self-financed record label. As far as I know there are no online archives of Kerrang! magazine going back that far, so we would need to find someone who bought the issues back in 1995/1996 and has kept their collection. Richard3120 ( talk) 16:08, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- There's no suggestion that there was any other Bruce Dickinson at the awards other than the Iron Maiden singer – he mentions Maiden more than once during the interview, so I'm not sure why you assumed it was the member of B.l.o.w.
- I appreciate your efforts to save the band article but unless coverage is found in reliable, secondary sources then notability is not established. The band’s own website saying one of their albums sold well does not prove notability.—
N
Ø
12:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:01, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:02, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Keep We have good reason to believe that this band received significant coverage in reliable sources (for the subject of music) independent to the subject of the piece - Kerrang and MTV. We don't have to have those references (that's a page-quality issue, not a deletion one) just know that they exist per WP:NRV. PS - Redirect all other pages to the band page since they're clearly not notable independent of the band. FOARP ( talk) 13:18, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- The problem with that argument is, how do you cite those sources? At the moment we literally can't say anything more than "1. MTV interview. 2. Kerrang! live review." We have no dates, no authors, no links, no issue number, nothing. And we don't know if the coverage is significant or not – the live acoustic review could be a passing mention as a support act, for all we know. Richard3120 ( talk) 16:08, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Edit: OK, so the MTV interview could be expanded to "Interview, MTV Headbangers Ball, 1994"
Richard3120 (
talk)
16:23, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Which is a start, no? Ditto the Kerrang! review. Improving the citations is a page quality issue for which there is no
WP:Deadline
FOARP (
talk)
11:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's a start, but it also appears to be an end as well, especially as the MTV interview amounts to very little. And unless we can really improve the sourcing, it's likely to be brought to AfD again in the future, so in practice there IS a deadline for improving the article before it gets deleted. Richard3120 ( talk) 18:41, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- Which is a start, no? Ditto the Kerrang! review. Improving the citations is a page quality issue for which there is no
WP:Deadline
FOARP (
talk)
11:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- Add evidence of notability or delete SleepForever talk November 2018, 18:29 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 00:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 00:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - Seems non-notable to me. An MTV interview is not enough to warrant notability. Skirts89 ( talk) 16:14, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.