- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:54, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Aurélien Hérisson
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- Aurélien Hérisson ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article about former footballer who played as an amateur except for two seasons in the S. League, which fails WP:GNG. The online coverage is almost entirely routine/trivial (match reports, injury reports, transfer annoucements), with a few minor exceptions. There are two Q&A interviews included in the article (one from October 2015 and one from December 2015) with the first one containing nearly zero independent reporting, and the second appears to provide little independent reporting other than repeating the information the subject provided in the October interview. Aside from that, there is non-routine, but not in-depth coverage of his play in Singapore such as this 2014 Singapore League Cup match report; so Hérisson did well for his club in that cup semi-final, but it never translated into significant coverage. Overall, there's just not enough coverage for a player who is no more than a curiosity (an amateur French footballer who played in Singapore). Jogurney ( talk) 03:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, France, and Brazil. Shellwood ( talk) 09:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - @ GiantSnowman:, I found [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], and [8], among many many more sources. Clearly significant figure in French lower league football who played 50+ games in the fully pro Singapore Premier League. Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of knowledge, and this article is a "yes" to Wikipedia:The one question. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 17:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Source evaluation:
- As I mentioned in my nomination rationale, Hérisson was the subject of two interviews in French newspapers during 2015 (October and December) that are not routine/trivial. These interviews are the 1st and 5th links you provide above. As I said, the October 2015 interview (in Ouest-France) is all Q&A, with no independent reporting at all except this lead sentence; Du Brésil à la France, des États-Unis à Singapour, Aurélien Hérisson, 25 ans, a beaucoup bourlingué avant de poser ses valises à la GSI. At first glance, the December 2015 interview (in Le Télégramme) appears to include independent reporting (with a byline for Eddy Jastalé). However, when you read the October 2015 interview, it is apparent that the December 2015 interview regurgitates Hérisson Q&A from the October 2015 interview rather than establishing new independent reporting. As an example, the opening Q&A from October 2015 is Entre-guillemets Brésil, Paris, États-Unis... Coutances: « Je suis né à Campina Grande, au Brésil. Je n'en ai pas de souvenirs, j'avais trois mois quand je l'ai quitté. J'ai vécu ensuite quatre ans à Paris, avant que mon père adoptif ne soit muté pendant un an à Seattle, aux États-Unis. À notre retour en France, mes parents se sont installés dans un petit village proche de Coutances, dans la Manche. ». The opening Q&A from the December 2015 is very similar: Du Brésil à Pontivy en passant par les Etats-Unis et Singapour, l'itinéraire d'Aurélien Hérisson n'a pas été un long fleuve tranquille. Né dans l'ouest du Brésil à Campina Grande, Aurélien Hérisson est rapidement adopté par un couple français. Sur sa terre natale, il ne restera que trois mois avant de rejoindre Paris, puis les Etats-Unis pendant un an. Après ce début d'enfance agité, il s'installe avec sa famille dans la Manche et commence à chausser ses premiers crampons à sept ans à Lessay (50). Déjà, le poste de gardien de but l'attire : « J'étais attaquant au début. Mais j'ai vite compris que joueur de champ, ce n'était pas pour moi ! », rigole-t-il. The remainder of the articles following a similar pattern, with the exception of an Aurélien Hérisson en bref entry at the end of the December 2015 interview (but it's just an infobox entry). In my opinion, these interviews lack independent coverage and don't count towards SIGCOV.
- The 2nd link above is a fairly routine match report (in Le Télégramme) from a 7th round 2016–17 Coupe de France where his amateur side was one of 176 competing, and he scored the winning penalty. This match was probably notable to fans of US Montagnarde (in fact, your 8th link is a blog from Mr. Yannick Moulard who appears to be just such a fan as he wrote a blog about that cup match), but nobody else. The coverage in not in-depth, and Moulard's blog cannot be used per WP:SPS. These cannot count towards SIGCOV.
- The 3rd and 4th links are articles (in Le Figaro) about 3 French footballers, including Hérisson, who were left in contract limbo after their club Tanjong Pagar United FC withdrew from the league. Although this was not a routine situation, there is no in-depth coverage of Hérisson in these articles. Accordingly, they cannot count towards SIGCOV.
- I also mentioned the 6th link in my nomination rationale (and according to your 7th link, this article was apparently originally published in The New Paper). It is a match report from the 2014 Singapore League Cup semi-final, and probably Hérisson's finest moment in football. However, the article itself contains little beyond a recap of the match and a set of quotes from Hérisson. There is not enough independent coverage here to be in-depth coverage of Hérisson. Accordingly, this cannot count towards SIGCOV.
- The 7th links is just a list of search results from the NewspaperSG archives. There are 59 hits, none of which are accessible. A scan of the headlines and limited text shown indicates that almost all of them are routine match reports (with little hint of what coverage of Hérisson might be included). The January 2013 article in Berita Harian looks interesting as it corresponds to Hérisson's arrival in Singapore, but it appears to be focused on the other French footballers and staff rather than Hérisson. I'm not impressed by these hits, and since the only place Hérisson performed at a professional level was Singapore I would've expected much more if he was indeed notable.
- Overall, I think your links are woefully inadequate. I've spent far too much time evaluating them, and would really prefer if you did the work first so others didn't have to do it.
Jogurney (
talk)
02:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- You're conveniently leaving out the 5th and 8th reference, which are valid and significant, meaning it passes GNG. And deleting a page with this much coverage seems a bit silly. Ortizesp ( talk) 05:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- You didn't read my evaluation very carefully as both references are covered in detail. If you think the 8th reference is useful, please read WP:SPS. I've already addressed the 5th reference twice. Jogurney ( talk) 13:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, passes GNG.-- Ortizesp ( talk) 05:50, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I agree with Jogurney's evaluation of the sources. Subject fails GNG due to lack of significant coverage Alvaldi ( talk) 16:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per Jogurney's source eval. Fails BLP, GNG and BIO. WP:BLP states "Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources"'; BLPs need IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notability per well known core policy ( WP:V and WP:BLP) and guidelines ( WP:BIO and WP:IS, WP:RS, WP:SIGCOV). // Timothy :: talk 04:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 11:29, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 06:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. I think the references are adequate, and I think his accomplishments are also notable. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 11:17, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Delete. There are not multiple non-database sources WP:SPORTBASIC. 128.6.36.94 ( talk) 20:59, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
- This is completely false... there are many multiple non-database sources. Either way, this account is blocked for disruptive editing. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 15:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, passes GNG.-- Shotgun pete ( talk) 23:49, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Not a slam-dunk, but I do thing the sources add up to WP:GNG. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 14:37, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. The sources brought up are a mix of sports databases (useless). Some just quote Herisson, but that isn't enough to mean he's notable. Really take a look at these sources. How many talk about him, and how many just include his name? SWinxy ( talk) 19:57, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:54, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Aurélien Hérisson
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Aurélien Hérisson ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article about former footballer who played as an amateur except for two seasons in the S. League, which fails WP:GNG. The online coverage is almost entirely routine/trivial (match reports, injury reports, transfer annoucements), with a few minor exceptions. There are two Q&A interviews included in the article (one from October 2015 and one from December 2015) with the first one containing nearly zero independent reporting, and the second appears to provide little independent reporting other than repeating the information the subject provided in the October interview. Aside from that, there is non-routine, but not in-depth coverage of his play in Singapore such as this 2014 Singapore League Cup match report; so Hérisson did well for his club in that cup semi-final, but it never translated into significant coverage. Overall, there's just not enough coverage for a player who is no more than a curiosity (an amateur French footballer who played in Singapore). Jogurney ( talk) 03:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, France, and Brazil. Shellwood ( talk) 09:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - @ GiantSnowman:, I found [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], and [8], among many many more sources. Clearly significant figure in French lower league football who played 50+ games in the fully pro Singapore Premier League. Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of knowledge, and this article is a "yes" to Wikipedia:The one question. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 17:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Source evaluation:
- As I mentioned in my nomination rationale, Hérisson was the subject of two interviews in French newspapers during 2015 (October and December) that are not routine/trivial. These interviews are the 1st and 5th links you provide above. As I said, the October 2015 interview (in Ouest-France) is all Q&A, with no independent reporting at all except this lead sentence; Du Brésil à la France, des États-Unis à Singapour, Aurélien Hérisson, 25 ans, a beaucoup bourlingué avant de poser ses valises à la GSI. At first glance, the December 2015 interview (in Le Télégramme) appears to include independent reporting (with a byline for Eddy Jastalé). However, when you read the October 2015 interview, it is apparent that the December 2015 interview regurgitates Hérisson Q&A from the October 2015 interview rather than establishing new independent reporting. As an example, the opening Q&A from October 2015 is Entre-guillemets Brésil, Paris, États-Unis... Coutances: « Je suis né à Campina Grande, au Brésil. Je n'en ai pas de souvenirs, j'avais trois mois quand je l'ai quitté. J'ai vécu ensuite quatre ans à Paris, avant que mon père adoptif ne soit muté pendant un an à Seattle, aux États-Unis. À notre retour en France, mes parents se sont installés dans un petit village proche de Coutances, dans la Manche. ». The opening Q&A from the December 2015 is very similar: Du Brésil à Pontivy en passant par les Etats-Unis et Singapour, l'itinéraire d'Aurélien Hérisson n'a pas été un long fleuve tranquille. Né dans l'ouest du Brésil à Campina Grande, Aurélien Hérisson est rapidement adopté par un couple français. Sur sa terre natale, il ne restera que trois mois avant de rejoindre Paris, puis les Etats-Unis pendant un an. Après ce début d'enfance agité, il s'installe avec sa famille dans la Manche et commence à chausser ses premiers crampons à sept ans à Lessay (50). Déjà, le poste de gardien de but l'attire : « J'étais attaquant au début. Mais j'ai vite compris que joueur de champ, ce n'était pas pour moi ! », rigole-t-il. The remainder of the articles following a similar pattern, with the exception of an Aurélien Hérisson en bref entry at the end of the December 2015 interview (but it's just an infobox entry). In my opinion, these interviews lack independent coverage and don't count towards SIGCOV.
- The 2nd link above is a fairly routine match report (in Le Télégramme) from a 7th round 2016–17 Coupe de France where his amateur side was one of 176 competing, and he scored the winning penalty. This match was probably notable to fans of US Montagnarde (in fact, your 8th link is a blog from Mr. Yannick Moulard who appears to be just such a fan as he wrote a blog about that cup match), but nobody else. The coverage in not in-depth, and Moulard's blog cannot be used per WP:SPS. These cannot count towards SIGCOV.
- The 3rd and 4th links are articles (in Le Figaro) about 3 French footballers, including Hérisson, who were left in contract limbo after their club Tanjong Pagar United FC withdrew from the league. Although this was not a routine situation, there is no in-depth coverage of Hérisson in these articles. Accordingly, they cannot count towards SIGCOV.
- I also mentioned the 6th link in my nomination rationale (and according to your 7th link, this article was apparently originally published in The New Paper). It is a match report from the 2014 Singapore League Cup semi-final, and probably Hérisson's finest moment in football. However, the article itself contains little beyond a recap of the match and a set of quotes from Hérisson. There is not enough independent coverage here to be in-depth coverage of Hérisson. Accordingly, this cannot count towards SIGCOV.
- The 7th links is just a list of search results from the NewspaperSG archives. There are 59 hits, none of which are accessible. A scan of the headlines and limited text shown indicates that almost all of them are routine match reports (with little hint of what coverage of Hérisson might be included). The January 2013 article in Berita Harian looks interesting as it corresponds to Hérisson's arrival in Singapore, but it appears to be focused on the other French footballers and staff rather than Hérisson. I'm not impressed by these hits, and since the only place Hérisson performed at a professional level was Singapore I would've expected much more if he was indeed notable.
- Overall, I think your links are woefully inadequate. I've spent far too much time evaluating them, and would really prefer if you did the work first so others didn't have to do it.
Jogurney (
talk)
02:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- You're conveniently leaving out the 5th and 8th reference, which are valid and significant, meaning it passes GNG. And deleting a page with this much coverage seems a bit silly. Ortizesp ( talk) 05:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- You didn't read my evaluation very carefully as both references are covered in detail. If you think the 8th reference is useful, please read WP:SPS. I've already addressed the 5th reference twice. Jogurney ( talk) 13:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, passes GNG.-- Ortizesp ( talk) 05:50, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I agree with Jogurney's evaluation of the sources. Subject fails GNG due to lack of significant coverage Alvaldi ( talk) 16:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per Jogurney's source eval. Fails BLP, GNG and BIO. WP:BLP states "Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources"'; BLPs need IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notability per well known core policy ( WP:V and WP:BLP) and guidelines ( WP:BIO and WP:IS, WP:RS, WP:SIGCOV). // Timothy :: talk 04:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 11:29, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 06:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. I think the references are adequate, and I think his accomplishments are also notable. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 11:17, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Delete. There are not multiple non-database sources WP:SPORTBASIC. 128.6.36.94 ( talk) 20:59, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
- This is completely false... there are many multiple non-database sources. Either way, this account is blocked for disruptive editing. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 15:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, passes GNG.-- Shotgun pete ( talk) 23:49, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Not a slam-dunk, but I do thing the sources add up to WP:GNG. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 14:37, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. The sources brought up are a mix of sports databases (useless). Some just quote Herisson, but that isn't enough to mean he's notable. Really take a look at these sources. How many talk about him, and how many just include his name? SWinxy ( talk) 19:57, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.