- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 23:51, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Arnold Gjergjaj ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
His record is good, but he doesn't meet WP:NBOX. Most of the coverage is about his fight with David Haye, a fight he lost in a second round knockout. I don't think the coverage shows the GNG is met and appears to be WP:BLP1E. Sandals2 ( talk) 17:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, and Martial arts. Sandals2 ( talk) 17:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
DeleteI admit I participated in the prior discussions about the notability of this article. In the last one, there was strong sentiment that because Haye had been a highly ranked fighter, it meant Gjergjaj was notable. His titles are minor and do not meet WP:NBOX. I don't believe that WP:GNG is met because much of it is from interviews with him or his manager or is coverage of his fight with Haye. I didn't think he was notable before the Haye fight and its result (and his subsequent fights) did nothing to change my mind. Training as a sparring partner with top fighters does not show notability. Papaursa ( talk) 23:55, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Cunard's thoroughness, and my work on Stan Schmidt, has convinced me to change my vote to keep. Not all of the sources he mentioned were good, such as passing mentions and fight results, but there is enough to show WP:GNG is met. Papaursa ( talk) 11:53, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says:
According to this article from Sky Sports, Arnold Gjergjaj's fight with David Haye was announced around 30 March 2016 and took place on 21 May 2016. Gjergjaj received significant coverage in reliable sources before 30 March 2016, which means WP:BLP1E does not apply. One of the articles about Gjergjaj is a 27 February 2015 article in Neue Zürcher Zeitung, the Swiss newspaper of record, which strongly establishes he is notable. He also received significant coverage in a 13 April 2022 article in Basler Zeitung which further contributes to notability.People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
- Articles from 2015:
- Coviello, Michele (2015-02-27).
"Grosser Mann, kleine Schritte" [Big man, small steps].
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-25. Retrieved 2016-04-25.
The article provides detailed biographical background about him. The article notes from Google Translate: "Meanwhile, the cobra is almost fully grown. Another amateur title was added, then was Gjergjaj professional, the most successful heavyweights that Switzerland has ever known. Last October flicked his left jab in the 9th round briefly lights when Bosnian Adnan Redzovic from. It was his 26th victory in 26 fight as a professional, the 20 by knock-out. Then he was allowed to put the belt as European champion of non-EU countries over the shoulder - it is not a particularly serious and coveted. Had he not won Yves Studer also at middleweight, you know this country hardly of its existence. [quote from Gallina] The giant Gjergjaj had in small steps the international ranking climb, first against building opponents, then, as in the last 14 fights against boxers with a positive balance. 2011 and 2012 yielded Gjergjaj from a total of 12 fights. Point by point, he has worked up in the current 50th place."
- Dutler, Alex (2015-06-01).
"Arnold «The Cobra» Gjergjaj - Europameister mit 7-Tage-Woche".
Basellandschaftliche Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "Arnold "The Cobra" Gjergjaj slaves there for the defense of his European champion title on 6 June 2015. The best Swiss heavyweight boxer is 1.97 meters and 110 kilograms already a colossal appearance, but his top secret Scandinavian training partner with the Vikings Bart and the tattooed arms surmounted him again by a few centimeters. ... Even with the Ukrainian world number 1 Arnold Gjergjaj has already measured in sparring. ... The European champion belt, which Arnold Gergjaj has taken on 4 October 2014 in Basel before 2000 spectators against Bosnian Adnan Redzovic is awarded by the European Boxing Union (EBU), one of the oldest organizations in the world. However, the Swiss holding not the top EBU title, but those in the category EBU-EE - he is European champion of non-EU countries."
- Oppliger, Matthias (2015-07-06).
"Hand gebrochen, Trommelfell geplatzt: Gjergjaj bleibt trotzdem Europameister" [Hand broken, burst eardrums: Gjergjaj remains nevertheless European champion].
TagesWoche (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "It was an evening of firsts: the first time a battle of Arnold "The Cobra" Gjergjaj was broadcast live on Kosovar television. For the first time the professional boxer from Pratteln had to defend his European title (EBU-EE). For the first time in his career Gjergjaj went down. Denis Bakhtov, called "Darth Vader", was without a doubt the toughest opponent for the cobra." The article goes beyond routine discussion of a sporting event by analyzing Gjergjaj's fighting techniques: "Although the decision in the end turned out clearly, all three judges saw in Gjergjaj the winner, could arise during the fight in the meantime, another impression. The early rounds were at least balanced, Bakhtov of active boxers. While Gjergjaj used his size advantage and kept his distance, Bakhtov knew only one direction: forward. So the prattler saw something too often pushed into a corner, where he tried to sit out the richly varied punch combinations of Russians in double coverage. Tactically and stylistically hardly two more different fighters could stand against. Gjergjaj fought cautiously, mostly over let the smaller Boxer the ring center and practiced in running work. [more discussion about technique]"
- Coviello, Michele (2015-02-27).
"Grosser Mann, kleine Schritte" [Big man, small steps].
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-25. Retrieved 2016-04-25.
- Articles from 2016 about the his boxing fight with David Hayes:
-
"Arnold Gjergjaj fordert Ex-Weltmeister David Haye".
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). 2016-03-30. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "Arnold Gjergjaj stands before the most important fight of his career. The currently best Swiss professional boxer meets on May 21 in London on the Englishman David Haye. For the 31-year-old, 197 cm large Gjergjaj it is the biggest fight of his career. The as a professional unbeaten pugilist from Pratteln with Kosovar roots was far against anyone yet boxer on the format of "Heumachers", although Gjergjaj had already won the title of "European Champion of non-EU countries"."
- Müller, Tobias (2016-03-30).
"«The Cobra» Arnold Gjergjaj steht vor seinem grössten Kampf".
Basellandschaftliche Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "Understandable. Today will be announced later in the day, what is clear is actually for days and is in social media as safe: Arnold Gjergjaj to deny the first big fight of his career. Against none other than the British David Haye. Of course there is little time for anything else at Angelo Gallina. Whether he was at the time of the message on the way to London to be at the press conference to local media Red and response to fight his protege against Haye today - this question remains open. ... Gjergjaj is currently classified in the BoxRec ranking ranked 29th To get further forward, he needs a victory against a large - like Haye is undoubtedly one."
-
"Arnold Gjergjaj fordert David Haye: Es ist offiziell: «The Cobra» aus Pratteln bekommt es in seinem ersten ganz grossen Fight am 21. Mai mit dem «Hayemaker» zu tun".
Basler Zeitung (in German). 2016-03-30. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The article notes: "Arnold Gjergjaj stands before the most important fight of his career. The currently best Swiss professional boxer meets on May 21 in London on the Englishman David Haye (35). The duel was made official at a news conference in London. For the 31-year Gjergjaj it is the biggest fight of his career. The as a professional unbeaten pugilist from Pratteln with Kosovar roots was far against anyone yet boxer on the format of "Heumachers", although Gjergjaj already won the title of "European Champion of non-EU countries". ... For the rapidly beating Haye (27: 2 victory prematurely, 25) is Gjergjaj (29: 0, 21) be the last hurdle on the way to an IBF world title fight."
- Davies, Gareth A. (2016-03-30).
"David Haye pledges to donate 10 per cent of ticket sales to Nick Blackwell".
The Daily Telegraph. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The article notes: "Haye, whose forthcoming fight against Gjergjaj is expected to be shown on free-to-air television, made his comeback at a sold-out 02 Arena in January with three million viewers watching on the channel Dave when he defeated Australian Mark de Mori in 131 seconds. He faces an opponent in Gjergjaj who has won all 29 career fights. Since fleeing Kosovo as a war refugee, Gjergjaj has been based in Switzerland, where the 31-year-old heavyweight is a resident."
-
"Arnold Gjergjaj fordert Ex-Weltmeister David Haye".
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). 2016-03-30. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
- Articles from 2022:
- Pauls, Tilman (2022-04-13).
"Arnold Gjergjaj steigt wieder in den Ring: Am 10. Juni gibt das Basler Schwergewicht nach etwas mehr als drei Jahren ohne Kampf sein Comeback. Gjergjajs Gegner ist noch nicht bekannt" [Arnold Gjergjaj is located in the Ring: On 10 June, the Basel heavyweight will make its comeback after a little more than three years without a fight. Gjergjaj's opponent is not yet known.].
Basler Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2022-05-07. Retrieved 2022-06-08.
The article notes: "It's the end of November. Arnold Gjergjaj is standing in his empty boxing gym in Pratteln and is talking about his new life. From his son, who now and then puts on the gloves himself. From his work as a trainer with the boxers of the next - and after next - generation. And about the upcoming takeover of a gas station at Kannenfeldplatz, where Gjergjaj now works. ... We now know that the 37-year-old will make his comeback on June 10th. Three years after his last fight in May 2019 against Elvis Moyo from Zimbabwe. Gjergjaj's face is not yet visible on the poster for "Friday Night Boxing" in Uster. But the organizers are already advertising with the name of the heavyweight from Basel."
- Pauls, Tilman (2022-04-13).
"Arnold Gjergjaj steigt wieder in den Ring: Am 10. Juni gibt das Basler Schwergewicht nach etwas mehr als drei Jahren ohne Kampf sein Comeback. Gjergjajs Gegner ist noch nicht bekannt" [Arnold Gjergjaj is located in the Ring: On 10 June, the Basel heavyweight will make its comeback after a little more than three years without a fight. Gjergjaj's opponent is not yet known.].
Basler Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2022-05-07. Retrieved 2022-06-08.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 23:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per Cunard; note that WP:NBOX is a set of guidelines, not of rules, and refer to not significance but probability of significance in reliable sources. Iseult Δx parlez moi 01:23, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 23:51, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Arnold Gjergjaj ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
His record is good, but he doesn't meet WP:NBOX. Most of the coverage is about his fight with David Haye, a fight he lost in a second round knockout. I don't think the coverage shows the GNG is met and appears to be WP:BLP1E. Sandals2 ( talk) 17:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, and Martial arts. Sandals2 ( talk) 17:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
DeleteI admit I participated in the prior discussions about the notability of this article. In the last one, there was strong sentiment that because Haye had been a highly ranked fighter, it meant Gjergjaj was notable. His titles are minor and do not meet WP:NBOX. I don't believe that WP:GNG is met because much of it is from interviews with him or his manager or is coverage of his fight with Haye. I didn't think he was notable before the Haye fight and its result (and his subsequent fights) did nothing to change my mind. Training as a sparring partner with top fighters does not show notability. Papaursa ( talk) 23:55, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Cunard's thoroughness, and my work on Stan Schmidt, has convinced me to change my vote to keep. Not all of the sources he mentioned were good, such as passing mentions and fight results, but there is enough to show WP:GNG is met. Papaursa ( talk) 11:53, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says:
According to this article from Sky Sports, Arnold Gjergjaj's fight with David Haye was announced around 30 March 2016 and took place on 21 May 2016. Gjergjaj received significant coverage in reliable sources before 30 March 2016, which means WP:BLP1E does not apply. One of the articles about Gjergjaj is a 27 February 2015 article in Neue Zürcher Zeitung, the Swiss newspaper of record, which strongly establishes he is notable. He also received significant coverage in a 13 April 2022 article in Basler Zeitung which further contributes to notability.People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
- Articles from 2015:
- Coviello, Michele (2015-02-27).
"Grosser Mann, kleine Schritte" [Big man, small steps].
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-25. Retrieved 2016-04-25.
The article provides detailed biographical background about him. The article notes from Google Translate: "Meanwhile, the cobra is almost fully grown. Another amateur title was added, then was Gjergjaj professional, the most successful heavyweights that Switzerland has ever known. Last October flicked his left jab in the 9th round briefly lights when Bosnian Adnan Redzovic from. It was his 26th victory in 26 fight as a professional, the 20 by knock-out. Then he was allowed to put the belt as European champion of non-EU countries over the shoulder - it is not a particularly serious and coveted. Had he not won Yves Studer also at middleweight, you know this country hardly of its existence. [quote from Gallina] The giant Gjergjaj had in small steps the international ranking climb, first against building opponents, then, as in the last 14 fights against boxers with a positive balance. 2011 and 2012 yielded Gjergjaj from a total of 12 fights. Point by point, he has worked up in the current 50th place."
- Dutler, Alex (2015-06-01).
"Arnold «The Cobra» Gjergjaj - Europameister mit 7-Tage-Woche".
Basellandschaftliche Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "Arnold "The Cobra" Gjergjaj slaves there for the defense of his European champion title on 6 June 2015. The best Swiss heavyweight boxer is 1.97 meters and 110 kilograms already a colossal appearance, but his top secret Scandinavian training partner with the Vikings Bart and the tattooed arms surmounted him again by a few centimeters. ... Even with the Ukrainian world number 1 Arnold Gjergjaj has already measured in sparring. ... The European champion belt, which Arnold Gergjaj has taken on 4 October 2014 in Basel before 2000 spectators against Bosnian Adnan Redzovic is awarded by the European Boxing Union (EBU), one of the oldest organizations in the world. However, the Swiss holding not the top EBU title, but those in the category EBU-EE - he is European champion of non-EU countries."
- Oppliger, Matthias (2015-07-06).
"Hand gebrochen, Trommelfell geplatzt: Gjergjaj bleibt trotzdem Europameister" [Hand broken, burst eardrums: Gjergjaj remains nevertheless European champion].
TagesWoche (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "It was an evening of firsts: the first time a battle of Arnold "The Cobra" Gjergjaj was broadcast live on Kosovar television. For the first time the professional boxer from Pratteln had to defend his European title (EBU-EE). For the first time in his career Gjergjaj went down. Denis Bakhtov, called "Darth Vader", was without a doubt the toughest opponent for the cobra." The article goes beyond routine discussion of a sporting event by analyzing Gjergjaj's fighting techniques: "Although the decision in the end turned out clearly, all three judges saw in Gjergjaj the winner, could arise during the fight in the meantime, another impression. The early rounds were at least balanced, Bakhtov of active boxers. While Gjergjaj used his size advantage and kept his distance, Bakhtov knew only one direction: forward. So the prattler saw something too often pushed into a corner, where he tried to sit out the richly varied punch combinations of Russians in double coverage. Tactically and stylistically hardly two more different fighters could stand against. Gjergjaj fought cautiously, mostly over let the smaller Boxer the ring center and practiced in running work. [more discussion about technique]"
- Coviello, Michele (2015-02-27).
"Grosser Mann, kleine Schritte" [Big man, small steps].
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-25. Retrieved 2016-04-25.
- Articles from 2016 about the his boxing fight with David Hayes:
-
"Arnold Gjergjaj fordert Ex-Weltmeister David Haye".
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). 2016-03-30. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "Arnold Gjergjaj stands before the most important fight of his career. The currently best Swiss professional boxer meets on May 21 in London on the Englishman David Haye. For the 31-year-old, 197 cm large Gjergjaj it is the biggest fight of his career. The as a professional unbeaten pugilist from Pratteln with Kosovar roots was far against anyone yet boxer on the format of "Heumachers", although Gjergjaj had already won the title of "European Champion of non-EU countries"."
- Müller, Tobias (2016-03-30).
"«The Cobra» Arnold Gjergjaj steht vor seinem grössten Kampf".
Basellandschaftliche Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The Google Translate of the article notes: "Understandable. Today will be announced later in the day, what is clear is actually for days and is in social media as safe: Arnold Gjergjaj to deny the first big fight of his career. Against none other than the British David Haye. Of course there is little time for anything else at Angelo Gallina. Whether he was at the time of the message on the way to London to be at the press conference to local media Red and response to fight his protege against Haye today - this question remains open. ... Gjergjaj is currently classified in the BoxRec ranking ranked 29th To get further forward, he needs a victory against a large - like Haye is undoubtedly one."
-
"Arnold Gjergjaj fordert David Haye: Es ist offiziell: «The Cobra» aus Pratteln bekommt es in seinem ersten ganz grossen Fight am 21. Mai mit dem «Hayemaker» zu tun".
Basler Zeitung (in German). 2016-03-30. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The article notes: "Arnold Gjergjaj stands before the most important fight of his career. The currently best Swiss professional boxer meets on May 21 in London on the Englishman David Haye (35). The duel was made official at a news conference in London. For the 31-year Gjergjaj it is the biggest fight of his career. The as a professional unbeaten pugilist from Pratteln with Kosovar roots was far against anyone yet boxer on the format of "Heumachers", although Gjergjaj already won the title of "European Champion of non-EU countries". ... For the rapidly beating Haye (27: 2 victory prematurely, 25) is Gjergjaj (29: 0, 21) be the last hurdle on the way to an IBF world title fight."
- Davies, Gareth A. (2016-03-30).
"David Haye pledges to donate 10 per cent of ticket sales to Nick Blackwell".
The Daily Telegraph. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
The article notes: "Haye, whose forthcoming fight against Gjergjaj is expected to be shown on free-to-air television, made his comeback at a sold-out 02 Arena in January with three million viewers watching on the channel Dave when he defeated Australian Mark de Mori in 131 seconds. He faces an opponent in Gjergjaj who has won all 29 career fights. Since fleeing Kosovo as a war refugee, Gjergjaj has been based in Switzerland, where the 31-year-old heavyweight is a resident."
-
"Arnold Gjergjaj fordert Ex-Weltmeister David Haye".
Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). 2016-03-30. Archived from
the original on 2016-04-24. Retrieved 2016-04-24.
- Articles from 2022:
- Pauls, Tilman (2022-04-13).
"Arnold Gjergjaj steigt wieder in den Ring: Am 10. Juni gibt das Basler Schwergewicht nach etwas mehr als drei Jahren ohne Kampf sein Comeback. Gjergjajs Gegner ist noch nicht bekannt" [Arnold Gjergjaj is located in the Ring: On 10 June, the Basel heavyweight will make its comeback after a little more than three years without a fight. Gjergjaj's opponent is not yet known.].
Basler Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2022-05-07. Retrieved 2022-06-08.
The article notes: "It's the end of November. Arnold Gjergjaj is standing in his empty boxing gym in Pratteln and is talking about his new life. From his son, who now and then puts on the gloves himself. From his work as a trainer with the boxers of the next - and after next - generation. And about the upcoming takeover of a gas station at Kannenfeldplatz, where Gjergjaj now works. ... We now know that the 37-year-old will make his comeback on June 10th. Three years after his last fight in May 2019 against Elvis Moyo from Zimbabwe. Gjergjaj's face is not yet visible on the poster for "Friday Night Boxing" in Uster. But the organizers are already advertising with the name of the heavyweight from Basel."
- Pauls, Tilman (2022-04-13).
"Arnold Gjergjaj steigt wieder in den Ring: Am 10. Juni gibt das Basler Schwergewicht nach etwas mehr als drei Jahren ohne Kampf sein Comeback. Gjergjajs Gegner ist noch nicht bekannt" [Arnold Gjergjaj is located in the Ring: On 10 June, the Basel heavyweight will make its comeback after a little more than three years without a fight. Gjergjaj's opponent is not yet known.].
Basler Zeitung (in German). Archived from
the original on 2022-05-07. Retrieved 2022-06-08.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 23:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per Cunard; note that WP:NBOX is a set of guidelines, not of rules, and refer to not significance but probability of significance in reliable sources. Iseult Δx parlez moi 01:23, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.