The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Comment I see you looked to redirect this page to Altay, but it was reverted by
Inwind with the reason given: 'Turkish and Chinese Altay is not the same as Russian Altai.' I have no idea if this is correct or not.
Boleyn (
talk) 15:49, 16 December 2014 (UTC)reply
To the best of my knowledge, it is correct; from the content point of view. The problem here, however, is that disambiguation pages are not content, they are simply navigational tools. We don't have a disambiguation page at
Altay and a related article at
Altai; what we have is two disambiguation pages, one of which (Altai) contains only one specific spelling variation and is a complete subset of another. That's the exact situation
WP:DPAGE addresses.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); December 16, 2014; 16:16 (UTC)
Comment to provide a bit of background for the discussion I would like to give a little explanation to the spelling variants:
Both
The
Altai Mountains which are the source of the majority of subjects can be romanized either as Altai or as Altay. This seems to be true for all languages involved (Russian, Kazakh, Mongolian and Chinese)
The legal case, as it's currently presented, does not really belong in the main section, since it's a
partial title match, although it would of course be fine under "See also". That leaves exactly one entry on the "Altai" page (the novel) which may not be referred to as "Altay"; the bulk of other entries can be referred to using either spelling. In other words, if both disambigs were to be kept, the only entries not present on both would be the novel (only on "Altai") and the people with the Turkish names (only on "Altay"), resulting in overwhelming duplication of entries. This can easier be resolved by leaving just one page (
Altay, to which "Altai" redirects) with three main sections ("can be referred to using the 'Altai' spelling only, the 'Altay' spelling only, or using either spelling"). Would you see that as an acceptable compromise? The alternative is maintaining two nearly identical pages, and that tends to be confusing to both readers and editors.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); December 17, 2014; 16:09 (UTC)
Regarding the legal case, it is common in copyright circles to refer to it as just Altai (
here, for example).
bd2412T 16:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
NorthAmerica1000 01:22, 23 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
NorthAmerica1000 04:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)reply
This is not a content fork because the pages in question are disambiguation pages (i.e., strictly navigational tools).—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); January 5, 2015; 13:12 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
SpinningSpark 22:27, 7 January 2015 (UTC)reply
A clear split: Russian and Mongolian topics to
Altai, Chinese and Turkish topics to
Altay etc. according to the relevant naming conventions. "See also" in between.
A full merge: Redirect one to the other
Since many people use different spellings than ours, and the two are derived from the same Mongolian word, I'd prefer the latter. --
Latebird (
talk) 19:34, 10 January 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Comment I see you looked to redirect this page to Altay, but it was reverted by
Inwind with the reason given: 'Turkish and Chinese Altay is not the same as Russian Altai.' I have no idea if this is correct or not.
Boleyn (
talk) 15:49, 16 December 2014 (UTC)reply
To the best of my knowledge, it is correct; from the content point of view. The problem here, however, is that disambiguation pages are not content, they are simply navigational tools. We don't have a disambiguation page at
Altay and a related article at
Altai; what we have is two disambiguation pages, one of which (Altai) contains only one specific spelling variation and is a complete subset of another. That's the exact situation
WP:DPAGE addresses.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); December 16, 2014; 16:16 (UTC)
Comment to provide a bit of background for the discussion I would like to give a little explanation to the spelling variants:
Both
The
Altai Mountains which are the source of the majority of subjects can be romanized either as Altai or as Altay. This seems to be true for all languages involved (Russian, Kazakh, Mongolian and Chinese)
The legal case, as it's currently presented, does not really belong in the main section, since it's a
partial title match, although it would of course be fine under "See also". That leaves exactly one entry on the "Altai" page (the novel) which may not be referred to as "Altay"; the bulk of other entries can be referred to using either spelling. In other words, if both disambigs were to be kept, the only entries not present on both would be the novel (only on "Altai") and the people with the Turkish names (only on "Altay"), resulting in overwhelming duplication of entries. This can easier be resolved by leaving just one page (
Altay, to which "Altai" redirects) with three main sections ("can be referred to using the 'Altai' spelling only, the 'Altay' spelling only, or using either spelling"). Would you see that as an acceptable compromise? The alternative is maintaining two nearly identical pages, and that tends to be confusing to both readers and editors.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); December 17, 2014; 16:09 (UTC)
Regarding the legal case, it is common in copyright circles to refer to it as just Altai (
here, for example).
bd2412T 16:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
NorthAmerica1000 01:22, 23 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
NorthAmerica1000 04:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)reply
This is not a content fork because the pages in question are disambiguation pages (i.e., strictly navigational tools).—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); January 5, 2015; 13:12 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
SpinningSpark 22:27, 7 January 2015 (UTC)reply
A clear split: Russian and Mongolian topics to
Altai, Chinese and Turkish topics to
Altay etc. according to the relevant naming conventions. "See also" in between.
A full merge: Redirect one to the other
Since many people use different spellings than ours, and the two are derived from the same Mongolian word, I'd prefer the latter. --
Latebird (
talk) 19:34, 10 January 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.