[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- All Saints Episcopal Church (Carmel-by-the-Sea, California) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This appears to be a part of Carmel-by-the-Sea related walled garden. The church seems to fall under WP:BRANCH and a stand-alone article is not warranted under WP:BRANCH. I've boldly re-directed but it has been objected by the creator. WP:OTHERSTUFF argument has been made, which is not a valid reason. What I do see is that quite a few others that may also warrant being re-directed somewhere. I suggest REDIRECT or selective merge. Graywalls ( talk) 01:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, History, Organizations, Religion, and California. Graywalls ( talk) 01:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - The article was accepted by @ SafariScribe:. The subject is notable based on the secondary sources provided in the article. Below are two examples. I feel the article was well written and similiar to other articles listed here: All Saints Episcopal Church.
- Hale, Sharron Lee (1980). A Tribute to Yesterday: The History of Carmel, Carmel Valley, Big Sur, Point Lobos, Carmelite Monastery, and Los Burros. Santa Cruz, California: Valley Publishers. pp. 63–64. ISBN 9780913548738. Retrieved 2024-07-08.
- Hardy, Maggie (March 30, 1995). "When City Hall Was A Church". Carmel Pine Cone. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. pp. 17, 24. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
Greg Henderson ( talk) 01:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Passing AfC only means that the review felt there's a 50/50 chance or surviving AfD, nothing beyond that. Carmel Pine Cone articles aren't unusable, but they mean very little as far as notability on a world scale encyclopedia. I do question the validity of existence of many of the local church branch articles as well. This one caught my attention, because of the pattern of Carmel-by-the-Sea walled garden matter I have been acutely aware of. Graywalls ( talk) 01:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - Churches do not have inherent notability. This one, while it may be known in its local community of Carmel, it is non-notable. It is not on the NRHP. The sources above are a hyper-local weekly Carmel newspaper, and a locally-published historical trivia book about Carmel. I would not consider this independent reliable sourcing at all. Of course locals are proud of their local church, that stands to reason, however that does not confer notability. This entry fails WP:NCORP, WP:ORGCRIT, WP:SIRS, WP:NCHURCH as well as WP:GNG. It also seems to be part of the Carmel/Carmel-by-the-Sea/Monterey walled-garden of articles. Netherzone ( talk) 02:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Per
WP:GNG a topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. The article has 12 references to reliable sources. It has been reviewed, accepted, and published by SafariScribe per
Articles for creation submission
WP:AFCH. The fact that Netherzone and Graywalls continue
WP:TAGTEAM my articles is questionable. Let
assume good faith and understand that this article was written to provide coverage of a
Episcopal Church that is historically important. The church was established in 1907, 116 years ago in a town that was just estabalishng itself. The church was designed by architect
Robert R. Jones who went on the desgin the
Monterey Regional Airport. The
All Saints Episcopal Church page lists many U.S. All Saints Episcopal Churches. Should they be nominated too?
Greg Henderson (
talk)
03:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:TAGTEAM is an essay, which means it hasn't been approved by the community, so it carries virtually no weight. And in any case, in a deletion discussion such as this, the only thing that is going to be looked at is notability and sourcing, not behavior. If you have a problem with the behavior of certain users, take them to WP:ANI with your accusations. Left guide ( talk) 03:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Greg, I have looked at the All Saints Episcopal Church. Look at how disproportionately California centered that list is and many of them are terribly sourced, advertorial and some not even article worthy. I've tagged and re-directed some and pruned some. The presence of pre-existing substandard article should not be an excuse to add further substandard article. Graywalls ( talk) 03:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- All Saints Episcopal Church (Carmel-by-the-Sea, California) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This appears to be a part of Carmel-by-the-Sea related walled garden. The church seems to fall under WP:BRANCH and a stand-alone article is not warranted under WP:BRANCH. I've boldly re-directed but it has been objected by the creator. WP:OTHERSTUFF argument has been made, which is not a valid reason. What I do see is that quite a few others that may also warrant being re-directed somewhere. I suggest REDIRECT or selective merge. Graywalls ( talk) 01:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, History, Organizations, Religion, and California. Graywalls ( talk) 01:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - The article was accepted by @ SafariScribe:. The subject is notable based on the secondary sources provided in the article. Below are two examples. I feel the article was well written and similiar to other articles listed here: All Saints Episcopal Church.
- Hale, Sharron Lee (1980). A Tribute to Yesterday: The History of Carmel, Carmel Valley, Big Sur, Point Lobos, Carmelite Monastery, and Los Burros. Santa Cruz, California: Valley Publishers. pp. 63–64. ISBN 9780913548738. Retrieved 2024-07-08.
- Hardy, Maggie (March 30, 1995). "When City Hall Was A Church". Carmel Pine Cone. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. pp. 17, 24. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
Greg Henderson ( talk) 01:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Passing AfC only means that the review felt there's a 50/50 chance or surviving AfD, nothing beyond that. Carmel Pine Cone articles aren't unusable, but they mean very little as far as notability on a world scale encyclopedia. I do question the validity of existence of many of the local church branch articles as well. This one caught my attention, because of the pattern of Carmel-by-the-Sea walled garden matter I have been acutely aware of. Graywalls ( talk) 01:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - Churches do not have inherent notability. This one, while it may be known in its local community of Carmel, it is non-notable. It is not on the NRHP. The sources above are a hyper-local weekly Carmel newspaper, and a locally-published historical trivia book about Carmel. I would not consider this independent reliable sourcing at all. Of course locals are proud of their local church, that stands to reason, however that does not confer notability. This entry fails WP:NCORP, WP:ORGCRIT, WP:SIRS, WP:NCHURCH as well as WP:GNG. It also seems to be part of the Carmel/Carmel-by-the-Sea/Monterey walled-garden of articles. Netherzone ( talk) 02:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Per
WP:GNG a topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. The article has 12 references to reliable sources. It has been reviewed, accepted, and published by SafariScribe per
Articles for creation submission
WP:AFCH. The fact that Netherzone and Graywalls continue
WP:TAGTEAM my articles is questionable. Let
assume good faith and understand that this article was written to provide coverage of a
Episcopal Church that is historically important. The church was established in 1907, 116 years ago in a town that was just estabalishng itself. The church was designed by architect
Robert R. Jones who went on the desgin the
Monterey Regional Airport. The
All Saints Episcopal Church page lists many U.S. All Saints Episcopal Churches. Should they be nominated too?
Greg Henderson (
talk)
03:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:TAGTEAM is an essay, which means it hasn't been approved by the community, so it carries virtually no weight. And in any case, in a deletion discussion such as this, the only thing that is going to be looked at is notability and sourcing, not behavior. If you have a problem with the behavior of certain users, take them to WP:ANI with your accusations. Left guide ( talk) 03:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Greg, I have looked at the All Saints Episcopal Church. Look at how disproportionately California centered that list is and many of them are terribly sourced, advertorial and some not even article worthy. I've tagged and re-directed some and pruned some. The presence of pre-existing substandard article should not be an excuse to add further substandard article. Graywalls ( talk) 03:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)