The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Comment. On the one hand, much of this content is a report on a single game. On the other hand, when there is a Wikipedia article about a sports rivalry, I usually vote to delete unless there are sources that specifically indicate that there is a rivalry between the two teams (as opposed to two teams that play each other from time to time but don't have a true "rivalry"). And there are a few sources like that:
Yahoo! Sports,
AL.com,
The Daily Beast,
OregonLive (which is cited in this article). I'm discounting
Tourisme83.com and
The Western Journal which are cited in the article, because the first is a French tourism website publishing a post irrelevant to its own subject matter and the second is considered generally unreliable, but the existence of some valid sources suggests that a proper article could possibly be created. --
Metropolitan90(talk)19:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete there is very little
WP:SIGCOV establishing Alabama and Notre Dame as "rivals" Going through the list provided by
User:Metropolitan90, the Oregonian and Daily Beast pages do not describe the teams as "rivals" at all in the body of the article, only in the title. Many times publications will use buzzwords like "rivalry" to manufacture hype and get clicks, but these two simply do nothing to establish the two programs as rivals. The Yahoo! sports page actually calls the Alabama-Notre Dame series a "non-rivalry," the AL.com page simply talks about the series and doesn't establish the two sides as "rivals" (using the term "rivalry" only once in passing). Notre Dame and Alabama are obviously two of the top programs in college football history, but that along with a few high-profile games is not enough to establish a rivalry, as evidenced by the lack of significant coverage. FrankAnchor02:38, 19 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete: They've met twice since 1987 and the next time they'll meet is 2029, this isn't an established and "true" rivalry. Coverage will exist, but it's rather routine given how much coverage is given to every individual game of top football programs. I'm with Frank Anchor on this one, rivalry headlines are often misleading.
Hey man im josh (
talk)
14:04, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep (but maybe rename "Alabama-Notre Dame football series"). These discussions typically get bogged down into whether a series qualifies as a "rivalry". That's fair since the article is titled "Alabama-Notre Dame football rivalry". If we take a step back from the "rivalry" paradigm, the series between the two greatest programs in the history of college football is notable, regardless of whether it's a "rivalry". These teams have played each other nine times, with both of them ranked in eight of those games, the
1973 and
2013 games deciding the national championship, the
1975 game depriving Alabama of a national championship, and the
2021 game as the national championship semifinal. That is at least as notable as
Alabama–Penn State football rivalry which has been kept twice in AfDs in
2011 and again in
2018.
Cbl62 (
talk)
18:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree with the others that 8 games played between the two teams (the 9th will be in 2029) does not make a rivalry. The difference between this and the Alabama-Penn State rivalry that Cbl62 mentions is that Alabama played Penn State every year in the 1980s. Alabama and Notre Dame have played each other sporadically, which does not qualify as a rivalry for me. The sources cited above or in the article only loosely mention the "rivalry" aspect of these teams and were primarily written before the 2013 and 2021 bowl games played between the two of them, perhaps to hype up them up.
Natg 19 (
talk)
18:32, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
delete but the only reason I can come up with is
ignore all rules because I really believe that the editing of any valuable content into other articles would be better rather than having this stand-alone article right now. I disagree that "we" are the ones who determine if it is a rivalry, but we ARE the ones who weigh on on the notability of that rivalry. I lean toward an editing solution.--
Paul McDonald (
talk)
22:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Comment. On the one hand, much of this content is a report on a single game. On the other hand, when there is a Wikipedia article about a sports rivalry, I usually vote to delete unless there are sources that specifically indicate that there is a rivalry between the two teams (as opposed to two teams that play each other from time to time but don't have a true "rivalry"). And there are a few sources like that:
Yahoo! Sports,
AL.com,
The Daily Beast,
OregonLive (which is cited in this article). I'm discounting
Tourisme83.com and
The Western Journal which are cited in the article, because the first is a French tourism website publishing a post irrelevant to its own subject matter and the second is considered generally unreliable, but the existence of some valid sources suggests that a proper article could possibly be created. --
Metropolitan90(talk)19:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete there is very little
WP:SIGCOV establishing Alabama and Notre Dame as "rivals" Going through the list provided by
User:Metropolitan90, the Oregonian and Daily Beast pages do not describe the teams as "rivals" at all in the body of the article, only in the title. Many times publications will use buzzwords like "rivalry" to manufacture hype and get clicks, but these two simply do nothing to establish the two programs as rivals. The Yahoo! sports page actually calls the Alabama-Notre Dame series a "non-rivalry," the AL.com page simply talks about the series and doesn't establish the two sides as "rivals" (using the term "rivalry" only once in passing). Notre Dame and Alabama are obviously two of the top programs in college football history, but that along with a few high-profile games is not enough to establish a rivalry, as evidenced by the lack of significant coverage. FrankAnchor02:38, 19 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete: They've met twice since 1987 and the next time they'll meet is 2029, this isn't an established and "true" rivalry. Coverage will exist, but it's rather routine given how much coverage is given to every individual game of top football programs. I'm with Frank Anchor on this one, rivalry headlines are often misleading.
Hey man im josh (
talk)
14:04, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep (but maybe rename "Alabama-Notre Dame football series"). These discussions typically get bogged down into whether a series qualifies as a "rivalry". That's fair since the article is titled "Alabama-Notre Dame football rivalry". If we take a step back from the "rivalry" paradigm, the series between the two greatest programs in the history of college football is notable, regardless of whether it's a "rivalry". These teams have played each other nine times, with both of them ranked in eight of those games, the
1973 and
2013 games deciding the national championship, the
1975 game depriving Alabama of a national championship, and the
2021 game as the national championship semifinal. That is at least as notable as
Alabama–Penn State football rivalry which has been kept twice in AfDs in
2011 and again in
2018.
Cbl62 (
talk)
18:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree with the others that 8 games played between the two teams (the 9th will be in 2029) does not make a rivalry. The difference between this and the Alabama-Penn State rivalry that Cbl62 mentions is that Alabama played Penn State every year in the 1980s. Alabama and Notre Dame have played each other sporadically, which does not qualify as a rivalry for me. The sources cited above or in the article only loosely mention the "rivalry" aspect of these teams and were primarily written before the 2013 and 2021 bowl games played between the two of them, perhaps to hype up them up.
Natg 19 (
talk)
18:32, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
delete but the only reason I can come up with is
ignore all rules because I really believe that the editing of any valuable content into other articles would be better rather than having this stand-alone article right now. I disagree that "we" are the ones who determine if it is a rivalry, but we ARE the ones who weigh on on the notability of that rivalry. I lean toward an editing solution.--
Paul McDonald (
talk)
22:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.