- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Fails WP:NPOL as a small-town mayor. For WP:GNG, the one book isn't quite enough to cut it. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:31, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
Al Santos (mayor)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Al Santos (mayor) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Mayor that does not come even close to meet WP:NPOL guidelines. Rusf10 ( talk) 15:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 15:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 15:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Venezuela-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Kearny NJ is not large enough to confer an automatic notability freebie on all of its mayors under WP:NPOL #2, but this article is referenced 75 per cent to primary sources that aren't support for notability at all, and 25 per cent to a local history book which just glancingly namechecks this mayor's existence a few times without containing any content that's substantively about him. This is not how you make a smalltown mayor notable: the notability test for a mayor is the ability to write a substantive article about his political significance, not just the ability to locate the names of his parents. Bearcat ( talk) 16:38, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Just like what happened to the old Incineroar article (I made a new draft but he continued to blow), this mayor lacks notability. Kearny, NJ is a small city. Also, this article is really small. I mean really, he's just your average mayor! What's so special about him? NOT THIS! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JTZegers ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Non-notable small town mayor, no coverage outside the small town, easily fails WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T· C 03:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep and expand - the mayor has an interesting life story which evolved into a book [1]. Not to mention being mayor of a city with almost 50th people for more than 20 years. surely there's room on wikipedia for immigrant family success stories. Grmike ( talk) 12:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- That's not a book about Santos, it's a book about the town which just happens to passingly mention Santos a couple of times, which is not the same thing as a book about him.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- in section ACKNOWLEDGMENTS - "I owe the concept of this book to Mayor Alberto Santos, who perhaps unknowingly suggested it with his letter to me about the first book. This project could not have been successfully completed without his personal assistance and the help of Ron Novis and others in his office and town administration. I continue to owe a debt of gratitude to Charlie Waller and George Rogers, who made the holdings of the Kearny Museum available to this project. Grmike ( talk) 22:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- the book highlights the accomplishments and history of the immigrant communities of Kearny, NJ. The mayor was born in Venezuela - his testimony is a powerful one.
Grmike (
talk)
22:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- Have you ever heard the expression "that and two bucks will get you a coffee"? (If you haven't, I'll give you a hint as to what it means: a coffee already costs two bucks as it is...) You're not saying anything that's "inherently" notable enough to make him eligible for an article in the absence of any significant reliable source coverage about him in media. Being mentioned in the acknowledgements section of a book is worth nothing in and of itself; where a person was or wasn't born is not a notability claim in and of itself; and on and so forth. Bearcat ( talk) 21:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- That's not a book about Santos, it's a book about the town which just happens to passingly mention Santos a couple of times, which is not the same thing as a book about him.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete There are so many communities in New Jersey in the 40,000-50,000 popultion range saying this even suggested notability for being head of a community that size would open the flood gates. The sourcing is just not there to justify an article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 13:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- comment - 20+ years is a long time to be mayor. not to mention the article was created in 2009 and he is still mayor.
Grmike (
talk)
15:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- 20+ years as mayor wouldn't even make him unusual. I'll grant that it's not as common in big cities as it is in smaller towns, but a person serving as mayor for 20 years is hardly out of the ordinary.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- 50th is not a small town. only about 600 cities in the United States have a population greater than it..
Grmike (
talk)
22:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- longevity does not equal notability. No one said Kearny was a small town, but at 40,00 its far from being a large city, there are actually more than 900 larger cities and towns in American (not 600).--
Rusf10 (
talk)
22:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- the point is that it's not a small town and in some circles it's not that small of a city either. Grmike ( talk) 07:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- Mayoral notability doesn't hinge on a "population of the city" test, either. Larger cities can have mayors that fail the notability test, and smaller towns can have mayors that pass it — the notability test is not about the size of the city, it's about the volume of media coverage about him that can or cannot be shown to support an article with. Bearcat ( talk) 21:20, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- longevity does not equal notability. No one said Kearny was a small town, but at 40,00 its far from being a large city, there are actually more than 900 larger cities and towns in American (not 600).--
Rusf10 (
talk)
22:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- 50th is not a small town. only about 600 cities in the United States have a population greater than it..
Grmike (
talk)
22:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- 20+ years as mayor wouldn't even make him unusual. I'll grant that it's not as common in big cities as it is in smaller towns, but a person serving as mayor for 20 years is hardly out of the ordinary.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- comment - 20+ years is a long time to be mayor. not to mention the article was created in 2009 and he is still mayor.
Grmike (
talk)
15:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Fails WP:NPOL as a small-town mayor. For WP:GNG, the one book isn't quite enough to cut it. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:31, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
Al Santos (mayor)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Al Santos (mayor) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Mayor that does not come even close to meet WP:NPOL guidelines. Rusf10 ( talk) 15:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 15:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 ( talk) 15:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Venezuela-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Kearny NJ is not large enough to confer an automatic notability freebie on all of its mayors under WP:NPOL #2, but this article is referenced 75 per cent to primary sources that aren't support for notability at all, and 25 per cent to a local history book which just glancingly namechecks this mayor's existence a few times without containing any content that's substantively about him. This is not how you make a smalltown mayor notable: the notability test for a mayor is the ability to write a substantive article about his political significance, not just the ability to locate the names of his parents. Bearcat ( talk) 16:38, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Just like what happened to the old Incineroar article (I made a new draft but he continued to blow), this mayor lacks notability. Kearny, NJ is a small city. Also, this article is really small. I mean really, he's just your average mayor! What's so special about him? NOT THIS! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JTZegers ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Non-notable small town mayor, no coverage outside the small town, easily fails WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T· C 03:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep and expand - the mayor has an interesting life story which evolved into a book [1]. Not to mention being mayor of a city with almost 50th people for more than 20 years. surely there's room on wikipedia for immigrant family success stories. Grmike ( talk) 12:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- That's not a book about Santos, it's a book about the town which just happens to passingly mention Santos a couple of times, which is not the same thing as a book about him.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- in section ACKNOWLEDGMENTS - "I owe the concept of this book to Mayor Alberto Santos, who perhaps unknowingly suggested it with his letter to me about the first book. This project could not have been successfully completed without his personal assistance and the help of Ron Novis and others in his office and town administration. I continue to owe a debt of gratitude to Charlie Waller and George Rogers, who made the holdings of the Kearny Museum available to this project. Grmike ( talk) 22:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- the book highlights the accomplishments and history of the immigrant communities of Kearny, NJ. The mayor was born in Venezuela - his testimony is a powerful one.
Grmike (
talk)
22:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- Have you ever heard the expression "that and two bucks will get you a coffee"? (If you haven't, I'll give you a hint as to what it means: a coffee already costs two bucks as it is...) You're not saying anything that's "inherently" notable enough to make him eligible for an article in the absence of any significant reliable source coverage about him in media. Being mentioned in the acknowledgements section of a book is worth nothing in and of itself; where a person was or wasn't born is not a notability claim in and of itself; and on and so forth. Bearcat ( talk) 21:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- That's not a book about Santos, it's a book about the town which just happens to passingly mention Santos a couple of times, which is not the same thing as a book about him.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete There are so many communities in New Jersey in the 40,000-50,000 popultion range saying this even suggested notability for being head of a community that size would open the flood gates. The sourcing is just not there to justify an article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 13:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- comment - 20+ years is a long time to be mayor. not to mention the article was created in 2009 and he is still mayor.
Grmike (
talk)
15:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- 20+ years as mayor wouldn't even make him unusual. I'll grant that it's not as common in big cities as it is in smaller towns, but a person serving as mayor for 20 years is hardly out of the ordinary.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- 50th is not a small town. only about 600 cities in the United States have a population greater than it..
Grmike (
talk)
22:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- longevity does not equal notability. No one said Kearny was a small town, but at 40,00 its far from being a large city, there are actually more than 900 larger cities and towns in American (not 600).--
Rusf10 (
talk)
22:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- the point is that it's not a small town and in some circles it's not that small of a city either. Grmike ( talk) 07:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- Mayoral notability doesn't hinge on a "population of the city" test, either. Larger cities can have mayors that fail the notability test, and smaller towns can have mayors that pass it — the notability test is not about the size of the city, it's about the volume of media coverage about him that can or cannot be shown to support an article with. Bearcat ( talk) 21:20, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- longevity does not equal notability. No one said Kearny was a small town, but at 40,00 its far from being a large city, there are actually more than 900 larger cities and towns in American (not 600).--
Rusf10 (
talk)
22:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- 50th is not a small town. only about 600 cities in the United States have a population greater than it..
Grmike (
talk)
22:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- 20+ years as mayor wouldn't even make him unusual. I'll grant that it's not as common in big cities as it is in smaller towns, but a person serving as mayor for 20 years is hardly out of the ordinary.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- comment - 20+ years is a long time to be mayor. not to mention the article was created in 2009 and he is still mayor.
Grmike (
talk)
15:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)grmike
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.