- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 23:53, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov
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- Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Notability is not inherited, simply being the dead father of a famous athlete is not enough to demonstrate notability. Either is being the "famous guy that works with other famous people", as evidenced by the lack of mentioning anything other than being Khabib's father the majority of this article or in most articles found online. Take Khabib away and this is just another Sambo instructor in Russia. Nswix ( talk) 03:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and Russia. Nswix ( talk) 03:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Multiple marks of recognition: "he was named by the Russian Book of Records as the most successful combat sambo coach in the country." He was depicted on a postage stamp of Kyrgyzstan after his death. There are multiple references in the Russian article at ru:Нурмагомедов,_Абдулманап_Магомедович that could be added to the story. He is notable independently of his status as father and coach of a famous athlete. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 06:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. As I was involved in editing this article, I won't give a vote. But he's famous not just because he Khabib's dad. He's actually an accomplished coach in Dagestan in
Combat Sambo and later MMA. Some guys claim that Khabib is such a good coach to his relatives and teammates but its actually his father who did most of the work to train them to get where they are. I feel he should be known more because of that rather than just the fact he was Khabib's dad but the average casual viewer doesn't have time to check I guess. -
Imcdc
Contact
12:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Being involved in editing the article doesn't mean you shouldn't !vote. MarchOfTheGreyhounds ( talk) 12:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- KeepI would argue he is of note for his coaching of Sambo and MMA to Athletes in Dagestan, not just being Khabib's father. He has also coached Islam Makhachev, Rustam Khabilov, Azamat Hashimov, Shamil Zavurov, Gadzhimurad Nurmagomedov, Magomedrasul Hasbulaev, all notable athletes from the region. Mustytoast ( talk) 18:42, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep I agree that subject doesn't pass criteria for Sportspeople, but it seems like subject meets criteria for WP:GNG as per Nswix. Lethweimaster ( talk) 06:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep The subject is notable. One of the most recognized combat coaches in Russia. Amaekuma ( talk) 11:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. So far no one has actually provided valid evidence that this person is notable. If he meets GNG, then specific sources demonstrating such must be provided. JoelleJay ( talk) 17:43, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Apparently Nurmagomedov was awarded with the titles
Honored Trainer of Russia and
Master of Sport of USSR, both of which seem fairly prestigious titles in Soviet/Russian sport. However I don't know enough about the criteria of notability in sports to know if that's an argument for notability, so I won't vote.
[1]source from RIA Novosti
Jaguarnik (
talk)
22:22, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jaguarnik, it's not, athlete notability is determined by GNG.
JoelleJay (
talk)
17:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- This is an objectively false statement. We have an entire guideline page made up of specialized notability criteria for athletes; it even includes an MMA criterion, although I don't think it would have any bearing here. -- Visviva ( talk) 22:58, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jaguarnik, it's not, athlete notability is determined by GNG.
JoelleJay (
talk)
17:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
References
- Keep - He has gotten a lot of coverage and even people who only watch UFC once in a while like myself know who he is. KatoKungLee ( talk) 13:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I want to go on record as saying I don't think any of these keep votes have actually provided valid evidence that this person is independently notable of his son's fame. Nswix ( talk) 19:05, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:16, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. First,
WP:NOTINHERITED is very clear that it would not apply in cases such as this:
Individuals in close, personal relationships with famous people (including politicians) can have an independent article even if they are known solely for such a relationship, but only if they pass WP:GNG.
(My emphasis.) Please consider reading the authorities you are citing. Second, WP:NOTINHERITED is neither a policy nor a guideline. It is an essay (or rather part of one), specifically a rather unfortunate essay that is chiefly used for dunking on others' good-faith arguments at AFD. It does not have any force of its own, so it could not provide any support for deletion even if it applied here. Third, there are a number of Russian sources that are currently cited in the article. On their face they appear to be articles in independent reliable sources that are entirely about the article subject, e.g. [1], [2], [3]. I have searched RSN but have not come across any prior discussion of these sources. Maybe there's something wrong with them, but nobody has raised any concerns about them so far in this discussion or any other discussion I can find. It therefore appears that the GNG is met. -- Visviva ( talk) 22:58, 9 July 2023 (UTC) - Keep per Viva admin. Okoslavia ( talk) 12:51, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 23:53, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Notability is not inherited, simply being the dead father of a famous athlete is not enough to demonstrate notability. Either is being the "famous guy that works with other famous people", as evidenced by the lack of mentioning anything other than being Khabib's father the majority of this article or in most articles found online. Take Khabib away and this is just another Sambo instructor in Russia. Nswix ( talk) 03:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and Russia. Nswix ( talk) 03:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Multiple marks of recognition: "he was named by the Russian Book of Records as the most successful combat sambo coach in the country." He was depicted on a postage stamp of Kyrgyzstan after his death. There are multiple references in the Russian article at ru:Нурмагомедов,_Абдулманап_Магомедович that could be added to the story. He is notable independently of his status as father and coach of a famous athlete. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 06:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. As I was involved in editing this article, I won't give a vote. But he's famous not just because he Khabib's dad. He's actually an accomplished coach in Dagestan in
Combat Sambo and later MMA. Some guys claim that Khabib is such a good coach to his relatives and teammates but its actually his father who did most of the work to train them to get where they are. I feel he should be known more because of that rather than just the fact he was Khabib's dad but the average casual viewer doesn't have time to check I guess. -
Imcdc
Contact
12:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Being involved in editing the article doesn't mean you shouldn't !vote. MarchOfTheGreyhounds ( talk) 12:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- KeepI would argue he is of note for his coaching of Sambo and MMA to Athletes in Dagestan, not just being Khabib's father. He has also coached Islam Makhachev, Rustam Khabilov, Azamat Hashimov, Shamil Zavurov, Gadzhimurad Nurmagomedov, Magomedrasul Hasbulaev, all notable athletes from the region. Mustytoast ( talk) 18:42, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep I agree that subject doesn't pass criteria for Sportspeople, but it seems like subject meets criteria for WP:GNG as per Nswix. Lethweimaster ( talk) 06:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep The subject is notable. One of the most recognized combat coaches in Russia. Amaekuma ( talk) 11:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. So far no one has actually provided valid evidence that this person is notable. If he meets GNG, then specific sources demonstrating such must be provided. JoelleJay ( talk) 17:43, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Apparently Nurmagomedov was awarded with the titles
Honored Trainer of Russia and
Master of Sport of USSR, both of which seem fairly prestigious titles in Soviet/Russian sport. However I don't know enough about the criteria of notability in sports to know if that's an argument for notability, so I won't vote.
[1]source from RIA Novosti
Jaguarnik (
talk)
22:22, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jaguarnik, it's not, athlete notability is determined by GNG.
JoelleJay (
talk)
17:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- This is an objectively false statement. We have an entire guideline page made up of specialized notability criteria for athletes; it even includes an MMA criterion, although I don't think it would have any bearing here. -- Visviva ( talk) 22:58, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jaguarnik, it's not, athlete notability is determined by GNG.
JoelleJay (
talk)
17:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
References
- Keep - He has gotten a lot of coverage and even people who only watch UFC once in a while like myself know who he is. KatoKungLee ( talk) 13:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I want to go on record as saying I don't think any of these keep votes have actually provided valid evidence that this person is independently notable of his son's fame. Nswix ( talk) 19:05, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:16, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. First,
WP:NOTINHERITED is very clear that it would not apply in cases such as this:
Individuals in close, personal relationships with famous people (including politicians) can have an independent article even if they are known solely for such a relationship, but only if they pass WP:GNG.
(My emphasis.) Please consider reading the authorities you are citing. Second, WP:NOTINHERITED is neither a policy nor a guideline. It is an essay (or rather part of one), specifically a rather unfortunate essay that is chiefly used for dunking on others' good-faith arguments at AFD. It does not have any force of its own, so it could not provide any support for deletion even if it applied here. Third, there are a number of Russian sources that are currently cited in the article. On their face they appear to be articles in independent reliable sources that are entirely about the article subject, e.g. [1], [2], [3]. I have searched RSN but have not come across any prior discussion of these sources. Maybe there's something wrong with them, but nobody has raised any concerns about them so far in this discussion or any other discussion I can find. It therefore appears that the GNG is met. -- Visviva ( talk) 22:58, 9 July 2023 (UTC) - Keep per Viva admin. Okoslavia ( talk) 12:51, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.