2024 visits by Viktor Orbán to Russia and China
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- 2024 visits by Viktor Orbán to Russia and China ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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I believe the article needs to go for two reasons:
(1) The article's subject (i.e., three four two foreign trips), is not independently notable. Foreign trips are an absolutely routine matter for ministers, prime ministers, presidents and other heads of state. Since Orbán undertook those trips as the prime minister of Hungary, they can of course be mentioned in
Fifth Orbán Government or similar.
(2) The article's topic is overly vague. Article was created four days ago under the undoubtedly POV title, "2024 peace missions by Viktor Orbán", focusing on Orbán's three foreign trips: to Ukraine, Russia, and China. Then yesterday, his fourth trip, to the US, was added. [1]. After the article, and in particular its title, was challenged via PROD, [2] the US and Ukraine trips were removed and article renamed to its current title. This even further reduced not just notability but even WP:SIGNIFICANCE of these WP:RECENT events.
Overall, I see no reason for Wikipedia to have a separate article on Orban's two foreigns trips, which will be all barely remembered in a year from now.
So, it'll be either a hard delete or a merge and redirect to an existing article about Orbán's government. — kashmīrī TALK 21:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Politics, and Hungary. — kashmīrī TALK 21:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: China and Russia. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: It's at least 20 sources, with an extensive analysis for each point made, I'm not sure what else you could want at this point. It meets GNG.
Oaktree b (
talk)
23:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- My reasoning was clear: it's not notable for a standalone article. See, for every news event, you'll have dozens of sources. For every speech of a US president, you'll have possibly hundreds of rolling news reports. But this doesn't mean that each speech should receive a standalone Wikipedia article. Same concern here: Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. — kashmīrī TALK 00:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to a broader article covering the Fifth Orbán Government or Viktor Orbán's diplomacy. The article covers the trips in some detail. Yet, they do not appear to meet the threshold for standalone notability due to their routine nature as part of a head of state's duties. Adding this info to a broader context will keep the relevant historical record. Yet, it will avoid giving too much weight to events that may not last. This approach will also streamline related content. It will strengthen the details of Viktor Orbán's political movements. It will also make the new article more complete.-- AstridMitch ( talk) 00:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:09, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Merge Violation of WP:NOTNEWS, see also WP:RECENT. The topic is notable only as part of 2024 Hungarian Presidency of the Council of the European Union, Fifth Orbán Government, and / or similar. Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, an international diplomatic conflict that has already generated so many sources and comments is always notable. --
Norden1990 (
talk)
11:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just a polite observation that this is not an article about a diplomatic conflict, whatever that may mean. — kashmīrī TALK 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Please save this cynical comment for others. It's just a polite note. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 18:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge Many of the sources in the article do treat the three visits as one cohesive topic, but for now, we have no knowledge of what lasting significance these visits may have. I cannot find any real effects that have come of these meetings except reactions from various countries, but that does not constitute stand alone notability in my mind. Instead, this can adaquetely be covered in an article like the Fifth Orbán Government. Gödel2200 ( talk) 12:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge There's not a general subarticle for his prime ministership, but shouldn't his actions during this term be at Fifth Orbán Government? Reywas92 Talk 14:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
2024 visits by Viktor Orbán to Russia and China
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- 2024 visits by Viktor Orbán to Russia and China ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I believe the article needs to go for two reasons:
(1) The article's subject (i.e., three four two foreign trips), is not independently notable. Foreign trips are an absolutely routine matter for ministers, prime ministers, presidents and other heads of state. Since Orbán undertook those trips as the prime minister of Hungary, they can of course be mentioned in
Fifth Orbán Government or similar.
(2) The article's topic is overly vague. Article was created four days ago under the undoubtedly POV title, "2024 peace missions by Viktor Orbán", focusing on Orbán's three foreign trips: to Ukraine, Russia, and China. Then yesterday, his fourth trip, to the US, was added. [1]. After the article, and in particular its title, was challenged via PROD, [2] the US and Ukraine trips were removed and article renamed to its current title. This even further reduced not just notability but even WP:SIGNIFICANCE of these WP:RECENT events.
Overall, I see no reason for Wikipedia to have a separate article on Orban's two foreigns trips, which will be all barely remembered in a year from now.
So, it'll be either a hard delete or a merge and redirect to an existing article about Orbán's government. — kashmīrī TALK 21:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Politics, and Hungary. — kashmīrī TALK 21:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: China and Russia. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: It's at least 20 sources, with an extensive analysis for each point made, I'm not sure what else you could want at this point. It meets GNG.
Oaktree b (
talk)
23:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- My reasoning was clear: it's not notable for a standalone article. See, for every news event, you'll have dozens of sources. For every speech of a US president, you'll have possibly hundreds of rolling news reports. But this doesn't mean that each speech should receive a standalone Wikipedia article. Same concern here: Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. — kashmīrī TALK 00:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to a broader article covering the Fifth Orbán Government or Viktor Orbán's diplomacy. The article covers the trips in some detail. Yet, they do not appear to meet the threshold for standalone notability due to their routine nature as part of a head of state's duties. Adding this info to a broader context will keep the relevant historical record. Yet, it will avoid giving too much weight to events that may not last. This approach will also streamline related content. It will strengthen the details of Viktor Orbán's political movements. It will also make the new article more complete.-- AstridMitch ( talk) 00:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:09, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Merge Violation of WP:NOTNEWS, see also WP:RECENT. The topic is notable only as part of 2024 Hungarian Presidency of the Council of the European Union, Fifth Orbán Government, and / or similar. Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, an international diplomatic conflict that has already generated so many sources and comments is always notable. --
Norden1990 (
talk)
11:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just a polite observation that this is not an article about a diplomatic conflict, whatever that may mean. — kashmīrī TALK 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Please save this cynical comment for others. It's just a polite note. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 18:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge Many of the sources in the article do treat the three visits as one cohesive topic, but for now, we have no knowledge of what lasting significance these visits may have. I cannot find any real effects that have come of these meetings except reactions from various countries, but that does not constitute stand alone notability in my mind. Instead, this can adaquetely be covered in an article like the Fifth Orbán Government. Gödel2200 ( talk) 12:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge There's not a general subarticle for his prime ministership, but shouldn't his actions during this term be at Fifth Orbán Government? Reywas92 Talk 14:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)