The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. My understanding of the relevant background is this: There is a lot of reliable coverage of this Islamic religious gathering contributing to the spread of COVID-19 in India. At the same time, there are a lot of tensions between Hindus and Muslims in India, and there is also increasing state-sanctioned Islamophobia and persecution of Muslims in India.

All of this divides our editorship, as is evident from some of the more questionable "keep" and "delete" opinions, and makes it very difficult to assess consensus. There is no numerical consensus, and both sides make valid arguments: there is a lot of coverage, which contributes to notability, but there are also existing articles about both the religious movement and COVID-19 in India, which calls into question the need for yet another article.

In my view, arguments based on notability criteria should not be given decisive weight in the context of this kind of topic. We have established notability criteria in order to distinguish unimportant topics such as run-of-the-mill garage bands or housing developments from important ones. But notability arguments fall short where all agree that the topic at issue is important, but that the question is how to best order and present the content.

In this context, I believe that the arguments made here against creating another article are significantly more persuasive in the light of the purpose of Wikipedia, which is "to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among contributors" ( Motorsports, 2020). Both COVID-19 and the India/Pakistan topic area are highly volatile and rife with misinformation and tensions in the real world and on Wikipedia. It is beneficial to the project and our readers to limit the number of articles in which such topics are discussed, in order to force editors with different points of view to come to an agreement over how to neutrally address these issues, rather than to create forks that, if only because of their number, are difficult to keep consistent, neutral and free from misinformation that can have a disruptive impact on the real world. For these reasons, I am giving more weight to the "delete" opinions in this discussion. Sandstein 06:43, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply

2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi

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2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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This is a WP:POVFORK of 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India and Tablighi Jamaat. There are no dedicated pages for any other coronavirus hotspots. It is difficult to justify it for this one. Even Tablighi Jamaat had created a much bigger hotspot in Malaysia earlier in March, which doesn't have a separate page. (See Tablighi Jamaat#2019–20 coronavirus pandemic.) And there were other gatherings the organisation held in Indonesia and Pakistan, which also became hotspots. Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Withdrawn by the nominator - I am withdrawing the the nomination because the size of the hotspot has turned out to be much larger than previously known. Right now, this appears to be a legitimate topic for an article. Meanwhile, a similar article for Pakistan may also become necessary. [1] [2]. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:44, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Malaysia-related deletion discussions. Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• DO NOT delete This page give information and awareness to people that how social distancing is important and what is the impact of social gathering in this lockdown. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kakariyachirag ( talk • contribs) 05:05, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Wait like M4DU7 said. Delete per nom. Maybe merge the content with 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Delhi. Shanze1 ( talk) 15:33, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete or possibly rename to "COVID-19 hotspots in India". There are at least 10 distinct hotspots for COVID-19 in India (possibly as many as 24) and we can't have an article on every hotspot. VR _talk 15:50, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete or possibly merge portions of this article with 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India -- Hindustanilanguage ( talk) 16:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom. merge to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India.-- Fathimahazara ( talk) 18:56, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• DO NOT DELETE This article merits a presence because of the implications it has for India. This is the the inflexion point in the Covid-19 cases in India. Further, Kautilya3 there are no pages about hotspots in India because there isn't any other hotspot in India. So far 9000 people have to be quarantined due to this event. 400 positive cases and 19 deaths have been reported due to this event. That's 20% of all cases and 36% of all deaths.

This means that the chance of Community level transmission has been greatly increased by this event. Therefore it definelty merits a Wiki page. I further urge Spasiba5 and Bharatiya to join the discussion.-- Trojanishere ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:55, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Please refrain from WP:canvassing users. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

He is calling someone to join this discussion whose account has been indefinitely blocked by the Arbitration Committee. Aaqib Anjum Aafī ( ^talk) 21:52, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete per WP:NOTEVERYTHING- does every controversy need a separate Wikipedia page? Aaqib Anjum Aafī ( ^talk) 21:14, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

the tone of the article is violation of WP:POV - it lacks neutrality. WP:Attack… A separate page named CoVid Hotspots in India seems better and then include every single incident in it, which anyhow is related to Coronavirus, or violated the rules of lockdown. Any social and religious gatherings or whatever. Facts need to be mentioned that the 13 March Circular did not prohibit the religious gatherings, this came later. Wikipedia demands Neutral point of View - Aaqib Anjum Aafī ( ^talk) 21:26, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Merge to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Delhi or ideally Wait for a couple of weeks to see the full extent of the spread resulting from this event. I don't think any superspreader event in the world is quite similar to this in terms of nationwide spread and news coverage, so the OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST argument does not hold water. M4DU7 ( talk) 22:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Speedy Delete This article smells too much like it's targeting Islam in general and Tablighi Jamaat in particular. As Muslims, we all know that it's well-known throughout the Indian subcontinent that Tablighi Jamaat is a non-political party and its members are trained and told never to talk negatively about any other religious sects (and I am not a formal member of Tablighi Jamaat or any other Islamic religious sect, just an ordinary Muslim). In fact, the nominator for deletion of this article @ Kautilya3: has gained even more respect in my heart for his fairness. Ngrewal1 ( talk) 22:17, 2 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• DO NOT delete - The article has detailed information about a deadly disease. It is in the immediate interest of lot of people who may visit the locality and may look for information on the internet, will be definitely useful for them. Article is not Islamophobic, its just giving out facts. Its just coincidental that people involved here are muslims of Tablighi jamaat. Amitized ( talk) 05:52, 3 April 2020 (UTC)Amitized reply
• Delete This is only biased kind of article creation. Hotspots are every where in the world. -- Irshadpp ( talk) 05:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Do Not Delete The article provides great information and resources to the spread of Wuhan Coronavirus. The reason why this article is justified is primarily because this single event is now linked to over 30% of COVID-19 cases across India. There is no such article from anywhere else because no such event took place anywhere around the world of this scale. The article should not be deleted. TheodoreIndiana ( talk) 08:32, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Is there a reliable source for the claim "no such event took place anywhere around the world of this scale"? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:30, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I present:

As the pandemic continues, people practicing their faith have become unwitting but powerful vectors in the spread of the virus. A cultlike church helped fueled the pandemic in South Korea. A synagogue north of New York City was at the center of an early outbreak. An evangelical congregation in France was the source of hundreds of infections. ^[1]

-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 14:29, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• DO NOT DELETE:People have the right to know no regarding what has happened at tablighi jamaat Wikipedia is all about spreading for giving information on related subjects more than 8000 people have been here and most of them are being tested positive covid-19 virus and this article is not about spreading hate against Muslims or are any misinterpretation of the related subject and I wish you consider this and do not delete the related article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.237.28.148 ( talk) 11:37, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Do Not Delete The article provides information and resources.

Zezen ( talk) 12:13, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Do Not Delete The article provides great information about a new form of biological warfare. Almost 30% of COVID-19 cases across India are linked to this congregation. Moreover the foreign participants entered the country under different pretext and some of them are yet missing. Also these foreign participants may have malicious/criminal intent. The behaviour of the participants towards the health workers is traumatizing. No such incident has been reported anywhere else in the world as it may be one of its kind or a beginning of series of such events. The people have a right to know. Before jumping to any conclusions Wait for a few months to see the full extent of the spread resulting from this event. -- Parth.297 ( talk) 12:36, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• ( edit conflict) Delete as per others, and also some fishy keep !votes. EG: @ 223.237.28.148: your only edit was to !vote in this AfD. Article seems to be there to make a point, and not to inform. Zezen: The article provides information and resources. The article may be good, but if there is no reason for this topic to be on WP, then... >> BEANS X2 t 14:37, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• DELETE Strongly support the points made by Ngrewal1 above. This article reeks of anti-Muslim sentiment and presents a heavily biased view. A toned down, more neutral version can be added to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India. Sahitana ( talk) 18:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete WP:POVFORK of 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India and Tablighi Jamaat, which encourages bias and POV push. Cheers.– Akhiljaxxn ( talk) 18:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• MERGE to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India. It is clear that this is an inflection point in COVID-19 spread in India, and therefore it must be covered. However, there are simply too many pages on the COVID-19 pandemic and we should look to streamline and condense information. This page sets a precedent that every super-spreader event must have its own page, which will simply be unmanageable. This incident is better categorized as a part of the broader Indian pandemic. Nmurali02 ( talk) 21:32, 3 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete per Ngrewal1.— Hammad  (Talk!) 02:58, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Do Not Delete Significant event that lead to a explosive spread in India. This NEEDS to be documented. Numancia ( talk) 03:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• MergeShould be covered in Tablighi Jamaat and other related articles ( 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India, 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Delhi etc. Not the only Jamaat gathering either were there in Malayasia, Pakistan etc. If there was to be an article at all then it should cover all of them. Don't agree with the Ngrewal on religious targeting, the Jamaat might be a non-political entity that does not take away from the significance or insignificance of this article. Gotitbro ( talk) 06:35, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Wait for now. the group is well known for its large annual gatherings especially in Bangladesh and Pakistan ( Bishwa Ijtema, Raiwind Ijtema) which have lead to accusations and controversies in the past as well (such as the 2019 Tezgam train fire, where group members were accused of carelessness that led to the fire). Should wait for the full extent to emerge in the next few weeks before taking any action here, otherwise my argument above stands. Gotitbro ( talk) 06:56, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Do Not Delete Significant event leading to virus spread in India. This has nothing to do with religion. Crackjack ( talk) 10:03, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Do not Delete Event related to significant (~650 direct cases so far) ^[1] up rise and spread of cases throughout the country.(no need to attach any reference here, one can just google and look on the effect) Nothing to do with religion.

Sanyam.wikime ( talk) 11:38, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete per nominator. I agree with the users above who have said that this is a WP:POVFORK of 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India and Tablighi Jamaat, which encourages bias. Millions of people are getting infected and will get infected in the coming days. All these incidents does not need a separate article. At best may be a mention in "Coronavirus in India" article is needed. And it is already there. Accordingly I think this can be deleted. Cedix ( talk) 11:48, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply

@ Cedix: This account was created just a few hours ago [ refrence ], without exploring any other things the user directly participated in some deletion discussions and know is participating in this discussion using specific policy words. Hard to explain ! - Sanyam.wikime ( talk) 12:03, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I think I already clarified this when I said that "Delete per nominator. I agree with the users above who have said that this is a ... ". For your information I copied the comment "*Delete WP:POVFORK of 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India and Tablighi Jamaat, which encourages bias and POV push. Cheers.– Akhiljaxxn( talk) 18:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)" as I fully agree with it. Is this prohibited ? Why is it hard to explain ? -- Cedix ( talk) 12:08, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Revisiting this after a 5 days since I last reviewed. I reiterate that the reasons stated for deleting this still hold true. I also agree with some of the new reviewers that this is a violation of WP:NOTNEWS. The notable topic here is "Coronavirus in India". The article has been filled with trivial and biased, non encyclopedic details. A para in the 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India is already there and that's is needed here. Cedix ( talk) 12:55, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Do not Delete Significant and very notable event that lead to a have corona virus infection to a major number of people who attended it. This has nothing to do with religion rather than an event that went unexpectedly pandemic across the country.-- Mims Mentor ( talk) 18:22, 4 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Merge to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India instead. Articles about this pandemic in Malaysia have section that discusses the Tablighi jamaat. Dede2008 ( talk) 04:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep since the scope of the subject has significantly broadened now and move the title to 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspots so that we can cover about Pakistan, Malaysia and Brunei. [3] [4] Aman Kumar Goel ^{( Talk)} 16:15, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep per above. I have no issue with the title change since that will be really needed to expand our coverage. Tessaracter ( talk) 18:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• keep: scope of the subject has broadened now. The event has already received significant coverage, and will be remembered for a long time. Also per Tessaracter, and Mims Mentor. —usernamekiran (talk) 20:34, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep per WP:RAPID and passes WP:GNG there is both and National and International coverage and issue has blown much bigger then what it was earlier .Now the only question is whether it will be lasting now that cannot be concusively determined at this point. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 03:41, 6 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep and rename per Aman.kumar.goel so we can cover their Pakistani hotspots. Störm (talk) 16:46, 6 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep and rename per Aman Kumar Goel. At this point, it satisfies WP:N, WP:V, WP:RAPID. -- Rsrikanth05 ( talk) 13:34, 7 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• @ Aman.kumar.goel, Usernamekiran, Störm, and Rsrikanth05: and others, take a look at Talk:2020 Tablighi_Jamaat_coronavirus_hotspot in Delhi#Requested move 7 April 2020. Tessaracter ( talk) 18:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Noted. Will take a look. -- Rsrikanth05 ( talk) 19:20, 7 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete as unencyclopedic per WP:NOTNEWS. Wikipedia is suffering more from the moral panic surrounding this virus than the virus itself. -- Netoholic @ 20:20, 7 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep Significant enough to be worth keeping, given that it appears to be the largest source of infection in India, contributing around a third of cases - [5] [6]. There are enough international sources linked to this event and continued interest on it for the article to qualify under WP:GNG. The nominator has also withdrawn the AfD. Hzh ( talk) 11:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep passes WP:GNG the subject has received enough wide coverage and attention. The content has been written well with adequate sources. Abishe ( talk) 15:52, 8 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Strong keep: A significant event/issue for covid19-related articles in India. Meets basic criteria. DTM ( talk) 08:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Though VR has a good point, to create/rename an article or section - "COVID-19 hotspots in India". DTM ( talk) 08:50, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Thank you and yes I agree. There are already other hotspots emerging in India, Pakistan and other countries that are not related to this event. We shouldn't have an article for every hotspot, but rather an article that covers all the major ones. VR _talk 14:11, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Strong keep: There already exists a similar article 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Pakistan. This was a huge event and got significant media coverage. Manas ( talk) 12:18, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.